I think the only way to think about timelines in SKU is if you approach them from a symbolic or philosophical view point. Otherwise it won't make much sense... :/

Now that I think about it, this could be divided into two parts:
1) the symbolic use of physical appearence
2) making time seem something that it really isn't, or in other words: messing with time. A LOT.

1) In episode 34 we see the flashback of what really happened. Anthy is portrayed quite young (Dios too, but he seems to change his age at times), but could it be that this is only how Anthy seemed to be? What I mean is that, maybe it's symbolic how Anthy made her sacrifice. People often do stupid things when they're young and Anthy's sacrifice couldn't be considered a smart thing to do. Now moving on, when Utena meets Anthy and Dios, could it be that she is only portrayed as being so young? Maybe she was much older than that when they met.

Arrgh, I'll have to finish this later. I must go to work.

Also, interesting thread. I can already imagine how much this will make my head hurt.

Hina the Prince wrote:

We all know the story of prince Dios and his sister, the witch, who sealed him away. My question is - how long ago did it happen? How old are they, really?

It happened once upon a time, which is the time before History, and the time before time as is chronicled. That's why the flashback is full fo anachronism. It's fairy tale time.

Dios and Anthy's age is "one the verge of adulthood". They're children, but with this hint of sexualization that can make them older sometimes. 14 is a good enough age for that. But the age shift depending on what role they have. By opposition Akio is older, he's the fully realized sexual adult.

It's all archetypal.

Hiraku wrote:

Wait, I'm confused, so Akio and Anthy have the ability to change their appearance into whatever age they want?

I don't think it's a concious power like a shapeshifting ability. It's more like they appear to be the age fitting to their role in a specific scene/moment.

Hina the Prince wrote:

And I don't think they can change their age according to their will. They're just frozen in their current age. I don't think Anthy changed form in order to become Mamiya, either - Mikage was just insane enough to see her as him just the way she was. I don't think anyone else saw Anthy!Mamiya.

Not even Anthy realizes that in my opinion. She doesn't even know why she becomes so sleepy lately (too much overnights with two champion candidates)

Hina the Prince wrote:

No, she knew full well what she was doing - her wicked smile in the end of the arc was proof of that, more than anything. The whole "oh gee I'm so sleep and I don't know why" thing was just an act.

She was the only one in the dorm at that time, Utena's not there, who could she be trying to fool? The audience?

Okay that's kinda creepy when the characters are manipulating the viewers. I'm scared now

Last edited by Hiraku (03-15-2007 09:55:26 AM)

Maarika wrote:

I think the only way to think about timelines in SKU is if you approach them from a symbolic or philosophical view point. Otherwise it won't make much sense... :/

I agree. Dios/Akio and Anthy don't originate from any specific time - they're timeless archetypes that experience surface changes but remain largely the same deep down. Dios' fall is an exception, ofcourse, but I doubt that it happened at any specific timedate, either. It could be perceived as the collective loss of the humanity's innocence. Ikuhara was clearly trying to muddle any attempts of figuring out the timeframe. Note the modern clothes on the sword-bearing mob as well as the fax machine in the barn, for example.
It's interesting to note that there doesn't seem to be that big difference between apparent ages of Anthy and Dios as there is between Anthy and Akio...

I'm certain by the way, that if Akio suddenly taught that a college would be a better place for the Duelling Game, Anthy'd be 18 in a flash - age is just another mask to wear. But since middle and high school are far better ground considering the teenagers' mentality, she remains 14.

Hina the Prince wrote:

Hiraku wrote:

She was the only one in the dorm at that time, Utena's not there, who could she be trying to fool? The audience?

Utena wasn't there? I was sure she was... oo; What episode was that, anyway?

I believe this was a similar matter as her being the "mirror" of the Victor's feelings. She would keep playing the part, even become the part she was playing to acheive the maximum effect. You can't drop the role just because anyone isn't watching, until it is at its end.

Ever hear of "myth time", in this things are no supposed to be measured in time as we know it...

Hina the Prince wrote:

Utena wasn't there? I was sure she was... oo; What episode was that, anyway?

The first time it's mentioned, Anthy falls asleep standing up while Miki and Utena are talking. That's in episode 21.

In episode 23, while Utena goes to see Mikage, Anthy asks an empty room why she's so sleepy these days.

Lightice wrote:

Hiraku wrote:

She was the only one in the dorm at that time, Utena's not there, who could she be trying to fool? The audience?

I believe this was a similar matter as her being the "mirror" of the Victor's feelings. She would keep playing the part, even become the part she was playing to acheive the maximum effect. You can't drop the role just because anyone isn't watching, until it is at its end.

She doesn't play the part of Utena's rose bride when she's with Akio.

Even when she's with Utena, Anthy constantly says and does things on the sly, so to speak. Things that reflect how she really views people, rather than how Utena would want her to. She coaxes Miki into dueling the first time by saying exactly what Utena would never want her to say. Although that was also an act, it was a different act. Whereas, alone in her room, how would Anthy asking a question aloud to no one be pretense?

Anyway, back to the first question. I feel the story of the prince and his witch sister probably predates the concept of princes and witches.

Lightice wrote:

Whereas, alone in her room, how would Anthy asking a question aloud to no one be pretense?

Because of self-conditioning, I'd say, as I mentioned before. She can't drop the role just because there is apparently no-one present. Someone could potentially be present and that's all that is needed.

But Anthy isn't bound to one role at other times. She subtly (and not so subtly) manipulates people by playing various different roles as the situation requires. She doesn't have a set role that she must be true to, certainly not to the point that she's compelled to act any specific way when she knows she's alone.

For example, in episode 12, when Touga leaves her on the balcony, she imagines sitting across from Utena. That isn't in any way being true to her role as Touga's bride. It gives the audience some insight, while having Anthy remain true to herself.

Lightice wrote:

Alternatively, she could just be making a rethoric question out loud for the viewers' sake.

She could, but why would this one scene be thrown in like that? What are we as viewers gaining from it, if Anthy herself knows the answer; one which is revealed at the end of the same episode. It's already been established two episodes previous that Anthy has been abnormally tired, the only new information is the indication that Anthy herself doesn't know why.

Dramatically, this can be attributed to irony.  In this form of irony, the words and actions of the characters belie the real situation, which the spectators fully realize.

Those are all applicable explanations, but they still leave the question of whether Anthy would do those things without the camera on her. I don't think it's impossible for Anthy to have her own purposes for those actions, even as the direction of the show uses those actions to counterpoint events that go on in the storyline.