ShatteredMirror wrote:

Nanami seems pretty popular in this thread. I like her because she's the only character who really changes throughout the series.

O NO U DI'INT!

Nanami's not the only character who changes, or even the character who changes most visibly; I think the latter honor has to go to Anthy.  Nanami's transformation is sort of a subtle one, from unhealthily self-obsessed to healthily self-centered, from insensitive brat to typical teenager.  Anthy's change is much more dramatic; in fact, it drives the plot of the show.

I also believe that Touga changes meaningfully during the series -- probably as much as his sister, and in a broadly similar way.  Juri grows up a little, but I guess I'd agree that her change isn't "fundamental."

Of course, neither of our male leads change at all: Akio is the embodiment of stagnation, and nothing really impacts Utena.  She's just not the kind of hero who changes, while Anthy is the kind of hero who does.  In four years we're going to have

ANTHY: Hey Utena, I was thinking the other day.
UTENA: Oh no, is this going to be one of these conversations?
ANTHY: Remember when you saved me from those million swords of hatred?
UTENA: Um... you're not talking about a week ago when I threw that jock out of that bar, are you?
ANTHY: No, I mean when... my brother...
UTENA: OH RIGHT!  You have a brother!  He was a hunk, Anthy!  What happened to him, anyway?
ANTHY: ...I love you, Utena.
UTENA: I love you too.

satyreyes wrote:

Of course, neither of our male leads change at all.

I disagree; I think Saionji changed substantially.  By the end of the series, he seems to have finally gotten comfortable in his own skin, content with his own strengths rather than himself thrown up against the standard of "anyone else."  Part of what endears me to him.

I will concur that Anthy undergoes the most dramatic change to the viewer, though I'm of the belief that that personality was always innate, just never acted upon.  By contrast, it seems the rest of the cast had to actually grow up to broaden their perspectives and alter their personalities.

Unfortunately, I also agree that Utena came out of the whole event virtually constant.  Perhaps that's the true sign of an unblemished prince, though.

Ah, my mistake then.  I didn't realize you were being glib with "male leads."

You have to wonder, then, if more power lay in becoming the true "self" than in what the duelists wanted to become to gain the power to revolutionize the world.  It could very well be that Utena's genuine character was what made her victory (to a point) so effortless; whereas the other characters seemed to be fighting so hard against themselves, Utena seemed, more or less, to fight for herself.

-----

Back on topic, though, I actually do think I would enjoy being around Wakaba, though her bubbliness would wear me out fairly quickly.  She'd certainly be the best sort of friend to have around when you needed pleasant distraction.  As a character, I do enjoy her for being -- aside from her spell in the BR arc -- a very nice taste of functionally not-quite-normal.  She's far from dull, but isn't defined by her hangups, like the rest of the cast.  I'm quite confident that she'll really shine post-series.  And lo, we're back at "becoming what you are."

Well said.

Considering him only as a character, I gotta admit that Akio is my favorite. Despite my disagreement with the morality of his actions, I cannot deny the fact that he does understand the psyche of those around him. He is aware of the issue they are dealing with and knows the way to take advantage from it (openly or not). Akio might be wrong in his perspective of things but he does get what the problem is in each case. He is such a good mind-reader that he can present himself to others the way that best fits his purposes. Besides, he has sense of humor. He could make anyone's perfect date, if his will. As a person, I don't think I could befriend him. I could never put any trust on him.

One I would like to befriend, however, is Anthy. I know she is not only as manipulative as Akio is but also a passive-agressive one and that together should have been enough to make me stay away even more than Akio's personality did. The thing is, I tend to like people who seems to be misterious. She has the appearence and the attitudes that easily gets my attention. For sure, one I'd have a crush with, it would be Jury. The other one would be Saionji, though I would never let him know it. He is too damn careless with his fans.

Let me see...I do enjoy pretty much the whole cast as characters. As for people:

*Utena:
I would have mixed feelings about her. I am sure that I would admire her gender defiance and her drive to do good and overall niceness but I know I would be too annoyed by her simplistic take on virtually all matters.

*Miki:
I would get along just fine with him, assuming he was not too freaked out by me, that is. Since I am shy and quite brainy I am sure we could be friends. Plus I indulge in classical singing, it would be great having him as a personal pianist.

*Touga:
I would hate his guts with a passion. As a character he does not peeve me much but as a person I would be at his throat or I would just ignore him and walk away.

*Saionji:
I would probably hate him as much as I would Touga. In fact, since I would probably not at all get to see his real motivations I would simply assume he was "Touga take two" and leave it at that.

*Juri:
Again I would have mixed feelings toward her. I am sure that I would feel pure admiration for her strength of character but her over-assertive mask would probably keep me away.

*Anthy:
I would get along with her. I would see her a very mysterious person and would be curious to see what lies beneath her apathy.

*Nanami:
I would completely abhor her as a person. If I got to know her, which would be unlikely as she would probably dislike me, I would end up pitying her.

*Ruka:
I cannot quite say. I suspect that his cocky-self would annoy me but I can imagine myself teaming up with him if need be.

*Kozue:
Oddly enough I think I would get along with her. Her vicious wildness and devil-may-care attitude reminds me of myself.

*Shiori:
I would find her dull. Of course if I got to truly know her I might end up sympathizing with her plight but otherwise I would simply find her too plain. I would get along with her but I cannot envision a deep friendship.

*Wakaba:
She would annoy me. Her overly energetic flights of fancy would tire me in no time.

*Nemuro/Mikage:
Being my favourite SKU character he is also my favourite as a person, mass murder and all. I would feel unbounded admiration for his mind and, I must admit, I would also find him extremely attractive. I am as vain as the next girl, mine is mostly an intellectual vanity, if Mikage were to be bother to be share his thoughts with me and were to allow me to bask in his company it would be something of an ego trip for me. Of course he is quite insane but I love that dichotomy of ruthless intelligence coupled with utter lack of sanity. I would enjoy the idea of being Mikage's peer. Were he to invite me to join his seminar I would accept immediately (damn you Miki! Let's trade places ). What Akio seems to be for the rest of the cast, the source of seduction enmeshed in desire and dark pervasive allure, Mikage would be to me. I can see myself all too easily helping him grow black roses ad eternum. Odds are he would craftily manipulate me all too easily, if it suited his plan. He could boost my ego without doing much, actually. I would make his whacky project of seizing eternity my own, in other words, I would end being Mikage's Rose Bride in a way.

*Tokiko and Mamiya:
Only mentioned here due to Mikage: I would have to get rid of these two, somehow. I would think of something when the time came.

*Akio:
I would be very suspicious of him. Odds are I would both enjoy being around him but would feel slightly distressed whenever I thought about him.

Last edited by Nocturnalux (09-25-2007 05:11:53 PM)

Whoa! I didn't even give it a thought before.. Let me see...

Anthy: I would be drawn to her because I have been bullied myself (Saionji and Nanami gang) so I'd probably think she is delicate and reserved. However, I believe I'd realize she is too weird for me because of the huge difference in how she treats people. "If Utena lets me"-line would make me angry, I'd probably yell at her: "Get a grip, you're not her slave! Think for yourself!" And her constant smile and sort of happiness unproportional to all she seems to be going through would just freak me out.

Did I mention that I hated her most of the series?


Juri: I love her as a character, and I'd probably admire her from afar. Hell, I'd be in the fencing team, asking her for advice (possibly sucking up to her too). I'd end up worshiping her and having her picture in a locket around my neck... Though I doubt her personality would allow her to ever consider me as a friend.. She'd probably find me unimportant.

Utena: I'd approach her very fast because she's unconventional, just like me. I'd admire her courage. Out of all characters, I think I'd get along with her best, even though I don't really like her as a person that much...

Miki: I love him as a character, and I believe I'd be very drawn to him because he is delicate, likes music and such. I'd butt in between him and Anthy and play piano with him. I'd be a comfort to him, or at least try, considering his sister being a whore and him being ignored by pretty much everyone..

I'd avoid Nanami because she would seem to me as a self-centered, egotistical brat. And a snobby bitch.

I'd probably hate Kozue. I dislike whory-types.


Who else...

I'd run away every time I'd see either Touga or Akio. Over-confident Don Juan types freak me out and every fibre of my being screams "HE'LL USE YOU!!!!" , so... I'd stay far far away.

Perfect topic for me.  I always love characters I would beat to death if I ever personally met them (Asuka, House, Haruhi, etc.)

I always imagine I'd hate Juri's guts at first, but then I'd learn a bit about her and go 'aw, poor girl, maybe she's not such a frigid bitch', but I think I'd just more have respect for her than be her friend.  I don't know about Anthy.  I think we'd have a 'kindred souls' kind of relationship, but I don't think I could talk to her unless Utena was around.

dlaire wrote:

Sajionji - daredevil X_x Touga - I would laugh at him. Akio - I would see erudite in him, so I think that I could even fall in love with him.

That's a good way to ensure you're going to have Touga maniacally determined to seduce you.

Hrm.

I would hate Wakaba with a burning passion. She's so...superficial, her forced cheeryness would get on my nerves. She reminds me of my hyper siblings.

Utena Shattered said was a lot like me. I'd maybe talk philosophy for a bit then get bored.

Actually, if I was at Ohtori, I'd see if they had a library... x.x

Jellineck wrote:

See, this is the kind of thing that makes me like Akio even more. I'm broken.

I'm thinking you'd make a kick-ass Rose Bride (though kick-ass is a weird way to describe it).

Considering how servile a Rose Bride is meant to be, I think the term KISS ASS would be more fitting.

Last edited by Tamago (09-28-2007 04:03:04 PM)

Jellineck wrote:

What Akio seems to be for the rest of the cast, the source of seduction enmeshed in desire and dark pervasive allure, Mikage would be to me. I can see myself all too easily helping him grow black roses ad eternum. Odds are he would craftily manipulate me all too easily, if it suited his plan. He could boost my ego without doing much, actually. I would make his whacky project of seizing eternity my own, in other words, I would end being Mikage's Rose Bride in a way.

Ooooh, beautifully said. True attraction lies in the intellectual allure - plus Mikage has that interesting contast between detached analysis and deeply emotional intensity. Physically appealing as well. Thin and pale and elegant, with long tapered fingers and a sort of delicacy that well defines his character.

I agree with you - Akio is all the illusional appearance of depth and complexity, but his truth is quite base. He desires pleasure, power, only vaguely hungers for something completely beyond his reach due to his dependence on the former traits. Searching him would be to peel away the facades of philosophy and lovely appearances to find only something quite vapid and ugly underneath.

Mikage, however, has that source of genuine emotion and inclination towards a moral nature beneath his mental conflicts. An analysis with rewards. The possibility of emotional attachment spiced with an intellectual bond.

Or at least in my humble opinion.

I could not have said it better myself! Speaking about Mikage's dichotomy of highly rational drive coupled with a genuine emotional depth, I have been toying with the idea of writing an essay on the subject but I always end up shying away from the subject.
Also, something occurred to me. *If* I was able to remember Mikage after the Black Rose Arc (which is not very likely but let us suppose it happened) I would gladly leave Ohtori to go hunting for him "in the real world" very much like Anthy did to Utena at the end of the series. Also, regarding characters and the way they change throughout the series, I'd venture to say that no one changes as much as Mikage. He goes from being a completely heartless individual, Nemuro, to being someone capable of feeling love, Mikage. Even as Mikage he still undergoes a grave change as he realizes that his emotions have been founded on what is essentially not true. An interesting thing about Mikage is that he only becomes truly dangerous once his emotional side is awakened. As "human computer" Nemuro he does not have enough motivation to care much about anything, eternity included. The fabled essay that I might still write purports to explain that love is both Mikage's downfall and source of strength as well as the ability to claim agency.