CMK wrote:

8:22  UUU-TEE-NAA-SAA-MAA!!!  This time Utena nearly goes out the window.

I don't think Wakaba glomping Utena like that would count as 'violence' so much. :/
Unless they'd actually fall out of the window. Ohh, this calls for a fancomic!

And does anyone else find it strange that with all the duels and fights in Utena there's not enough blood. I mean, there was not a single drop of blood even when Utena was stabbed!
However, when I was rewatching the whole series last time, I found a scene that actually had REAL blood in it. I forgot which episode it was, but I think it was "Cowbell of Happiness" where Utena punched Yamada, Tanaka and Suzuki. And their noses bled.

Maarika wrote:

And does anyone else find it strange that with all the duels and fights in Utena there's not enough blood. I mean, there was not a single drop of blood even when Utena was stabbed!

When you look really close at Utena being stabbed, I could swear that the blade never actually touches her. It goes by her side, just like in theatre-plays. But how she then feel the effects of the stab? I have no idea, but I can speculate: the state in which Utena, Anthy and Akio are, at that moment is even farther from conventional reality than most of Ohtori is. Utena isn't physically harmed, but her heart gets wounded, so to speak, from Anthy's betrayal, which renders her incapacitated in a place where metaphors more or less equal reality. That'd also explain ripped clothes, later on (nothing rips them, as far as we can see), as well as the miraculous recovery.

What I find even more curious is that no-one ever gets wounded in the duels, just by pure accident. Even Utena who has barely held a sword before never botches and cuts somebody. You can't overemphasize how hard it'd be to aim a sword that precisely, in real life. Another aspect of unreality in Ohtori's little world, I suppose.

Last edited by Lightice (11-13-2006 11:30:04 AM)

A more thought-out reply here: perhaps, to some minimal degree, the Duelists are all controlled by Anthy or Akio to keep from harming each other. Also, the swords could be magically tampered with by Anthy to keep them from cutting flesh. (Aside from the obvious exception of Saionji slashing Touga, but that entire thing was set up and probably had Akio and Anthy's full knowledge and acceptance.) Another idea I had was that the arena clearly doesn't exist in the physical reality so much as some sort of semi-dimensional pocket that has enough grounding in the physical world to keep clothing damage from disappearing once people leave the arena. Duelists fight differently in the arena than they do in the 'real world', and the will of the fighter seems to have as much bearing on how the duel will turn out as the skill of the respective swordsmen. The dueling arena is heavily grounded in the minds and spirits of the duelists, and the events within it are determined to some extent by their qualities.  It could be that unless a person wills that their sword make flesh wounds, they won't cut the skin. No accidental wounding, and I don't think anyone but Saionji would have the intent to damage someone. That could explain Touga: he willed himself to be injured by Saionji's blade.

Also, I think that Akio doesn't want anything that isn't superficial damage from the swords on his students, since they'd have to seek medical help and that would cause uncomfortable questions. He also seemed to want these duels to be like games, fitting into the childish, fairytale-like atmosphere of Ohtori. He probably actively did something to keep reality from imposing itself too much in these duels: falling off the edge of the arena, getting sliced by the swords, novice fencers poking eyes out, etc.

The fact that nobody's ever been injured is emphasized when Akio points out that all of the duels that Utena had fought in up to that point (their duel) had just been games. I always felt that it was a way of reflecting how far removed Ohtori was from reality, but it's very well possible that Akio really did just want everything to be a game, even if the participants didn't realize it.

You know, when you really think about it, Touga let Saionji take a huge chunk out of him. We already know he's ruthless and won't take prisoners when he's after his goals, but the extremity there is really striking when you think about it. Such a vain man, you have to wonder how he felt about that in the end. He doesn't seem to regret it in the least, and obviously isn't worried it's going to rain on his sex life, but...still.

Then again, did he know Saionji would do that? He must have expected an attack, but did he trust Saionji enough to assume it'd be an asskicking instead of carving the Thanksgiving turkey?

Personally, it's my opinion that Touga didn't go into this intending to have Saionji turn him into deli-sliced meat.  If he had really thought Saionji would go so far, he probably would have brought his own sword to parry the blow.  Instead, he went with it and had to hope the cut wouldn't be to severe.  Akio would probably have been...very upset had Utena been struck down with no chance to protect herself.  Even at this stage, Touga's smart enough to realize he does not want to be the one Ends of the World takes out his frustrations at having to find a new prince on.

It's probably worth noting that Ikuhara has proven....somewhat unreliable....when it comes to answering questions about this show.

Screen and stage swordfighting has plenty of variety, although much of that has already been explored.  What does make it difficult is that animation time on Utena was evidently somewhat scarce, which is the real reason for the overuse of stock footage. 

He's also said the flying horses are a reference to a discarded plot for the Sailor Moon SuperS movie involving an Evil Pegasus that was ultimately rejected as being too strange.

CMK wrote:

18:22 Juri choving Utena the first time (At the very least, it's pretty unsporting.)

Unsporting? It would have been unsporting to break her arm, which she could well have done. Swordsmanship is a full-contact sport and there is all sorts of touching, besides the blades (well, didn't that sound dirty...). Hell, if I played the duelling game, I'd feign a strike and grab the opponent's rose off their chest with my bare hand - I wonder if that'd be accepted as a victory...

Lightice wrote:

Unsporting? It would have been unsporting to break her arm, which she could well have done. Swordsmanship is a full-contact sport and there is all sorts of touching, besides the blades (well, didn't that sound dirty...emot-rolleyes). Hell, if I played the duelling game, I'd feign a strike and grab the opponent's rose off their chest with my bare hand - I wonder if that'd be accepted as a victory...

The duels seem to be almost a play-version of real fighting.  Use the swords, or don't play.  In fact, if you go with the explanation that Utena is still being tested, I would say Juri's shove might help explain why Akio and/or Anthy intervened on Utena's behalf here.  Juri broke the rules, so she wouldn't be allowed to win, so when the Dios Leap failed, intervention was required.

Ragnarok wrote:

CMK wrote:

17:56 Duel begins

18:22 Juri choving Utena the first time (At the very least, it's pretty unsporting.)

20:05  Sword from the sky, Duel ends

If this shove gets mentioned I think Saionji's kick in the second duel needs to be noted as well.

(And what about Touga punching out a kangaroo? )

You're right about the kick.  I should have mentioned that.  If I go back for a second pass I'll nail that one then.

As for the kangaroo, I decided to leave out animals.  That's on both sides of the equation.

This is going to get further complicated with the Cowbell of Happiness.

And now (Delayed for a few days by settling in and watching entirely too much Fushigi Yugi in a short span) the final episodes of the Student Council arc!

Episode 10

3:54  Slap from the distance, viewing the garden.  Nanami slapping Utena.

10:19  Nanami slaps Utena, again.

17:38 Duel official start

18:26 Duel official end

18:52  Nanami swings with the dagger.  No arguments about the minutae of the rules of the game here, the rose is long gone.

19:06-19:29  Resumed sword-fight.  Lots of ground to cover, and individual swings are pretty meaningless.  One more count for Nanami

Episode 11

2:06  Another tackle from Wakaba.  I have absolutely no explanation for why she keeps putting her and Utena's bodies on the line like this aside from comic relief, which is why I keep throwing these moments in.

16:16  Duel start.

18:35  Duel end.


Episode 12

1:13  Opening shot is of Touga slicing the rose off during the last duel.  I won't be counting this in official tallies, just noting it.

9:07  Wakaba is slapped by Utena.

9:19  Wakaba slaps back.

18:15  Duel start

20:20  Duel end

Episode 13

No new events

CMK wrote:

Characters smacking

Anthy:  1 (Wow, didn't initially think she'd make this list)

What? You mean the curry episode? Does that really count?