Miki's flashback was in episode 4, I think.

Before I forget about this, in episode 36, right after Akio says he doesn't really care for the stars, they pan down the window in Utena and Anthy's room. The sky in the window is rotating the way a sky does over the course of a full evening, but at a speed you can see in the shot. Just like in a planetarium.

Edit: However, the sky in the actual planetarium Akio, Touga and Saionji are having a camera party in a scene later...doesn't move. The suggestion, I would imagine, being that the 'real' stars are in the planetarium with them. The state that Utena's in is part of the illusion; it's not really her, but rather the illusion of herself Akio's pushed on her. Of course, you could also read that as the illusion in the room being Anthy...

Giovanna wrote:

Edit: However, the sky in the actual planetarium Akio, Touga and Saionji are having a camera party in a scene later...doesn't move. The suggestion, I would imagine, being that the 'real' stars are in the planetarium with them. The state that Utena's in is part of the illusion; it's not really her, but rather the illusion of herself Akio's pushed on her. Of course, you could also read that as the illusion in the room being Anthy...

Hehe, for me it's the exact opposite. The stars that Utena and Anthy are looking are the real ones, just as they are real even if they've been put amidst the illusionary life and dreams. Oh, and the stargazing in this scene also makes me think how they are facing the reality, but yet not seeing it. They're both oblivious about it but still on their way to realisation. It's like they're staring at something that's right under their nose but they can't see it. The fact that the stars are moving is significant 'cause the real stars are doing the same (well, not precicely though since it's the Earth that is actually moving the most).
And as for the camera party, those stars there are fake, especially if you consider the way they are being created. They're just projected in the planetarium. And even if they were moving too, it doesn't change the fact that they're not real.

Also, I believe if it wasn't for Utena, the stars in their bedroom would have been motionless too. Anthy doesn't try to do anything to make a change on her own. Oh, oh! And I think there's the Dioscuri symbolim again. In the beginning of the scene both Utena and Anthy are standing at the opposite side of the window, but later on they end up together in the middle of the room. That's almost as if they were drawn to each other - kind of like stars and other celestial bodies affect each other through gravity (w00t, I remember something from my physics class ). However, the speed at which the stars are rotating is waaay unreal since you hardly notice any change in the night sky in reality. I think the high speed is a reference to how things are going to go from there on. By that point, the revolution is so close and all the following events are the katalysts for all the other things that are going to happen. There's no turing back anymore, both Utena and Anthy are drawn into the spiral of changes and they are the ones who have to deal with it the most.
There's also Touga and Saionji in the planetarium and they, too, will change in the end, but like I mentioned somewhere else (where - I can't remember), the revolution for Anthy and Utena is a bit different since it comes more abruptly for them and it requires an instant reaction, whereas Touga and Saionji and the rest of them can finish their lovely schoolyears in Ohtori before the go out in the world. And that they will.

There was something else about the stars, but now I forgot.
Someday we shall have a thread about all the things that can be seen behind the window in Utena's and Anthy's bedroom.

Earlier in this thread, we were speculating about the meaning of the word Dios. It's Spanish for God but is also the Greek genitive of Zeus. You see it in the word Dioscuri, the Twins. Kouros = boy, therefore children of Zeus. Dyo is also the Greek word for two. In terms of Utena the idea of duality is at least as important as the idea of divinity.

I sure hope someone else didn't already note all this elsewhere already.

I've got two questions. The first one in the episode where we flashback in time and find out the truth about the black rose duleists, why is the blinking hand pointing at the black cat's that show up in the window when Mikage is talking to Mamiya's mom.

The second question is about the same episode, the same hand is pointing at a random student on the steps up to the hall, I've figured out what most of the things that are pointed at mean but these two stump me.

There was something else, but um, I forgot...

EDIT: I remembered what the third thing that's been bugging me was, at the very end of the movie, why do the two shadow girls turn to straw dummies with Unena's and Anthy's names on their badges.

Last edited by Shy Kitsune (05-24-2007 04:17:34 AM)

Wasn't Tokiko Mamiya's sister?

The family of cats was strangely humorous to me, in a way, because... if I remember, they eventually have a family of 3... maybe... implying the trio of Tokiko, Nemuro, and Mamiya?
In any case, those were some BUSY cats...
There was also a coffee cup with someone's (Tokiko's) lips imprinted on it. <-I guess it just goes to show the extent of obsessiveness Nemuro has for Tokiko?
They also do a pointer on two MALE students who were holding hands with each other.
If every finger pointer means something, then what does the gay couples imply?

Shy Kitsune wrote:

I've got two questions. The first one in the episode where we flashback in time and find out the truth about the black rose duleists, why is the blinking hand pointing at the black cat's that show up in the window when Mikage is talking to Mamiya's mom.

That's an essay about that.


I just about finished analyzing episode seven: Unfulfilled Juri, and then lost interest at the last minute and started focusing on a different project. I'm kind of disappointed. Now I need to find motivation to write about the damn thing.

Maarika wrote:

Oh, please do that!

I'll draw you Shiori. ;D


(And besides, Shiori seems fun to draw so I need an excuse to do that.)

It's a deal.

(Yay! Motivation and Shiori fanart!)

Well, I always thought Chigusa's hair was a light cyan/turquoise, filling in the spot on the color spectrum between Miki and Saionji. It's basically the only "true color" not already represented in the series, but I suppose that can be discussed in the color thread I unintentionally hijacked many moons ago.

Last edited by Raven Nightshade (05-24-2007 08:05:52 PM)

Lilies:
Lilies in Japan means "juri", it's symbol of shojo and juri anime too First mangas were marked this flower at its first page. Lillies are representing woman's world in this anime: even though all is about Akio, man, we can see only females feelings and fights.

Umbrellas:
I think that it's symbol of shield, protection. When Keiko is protecting Touga from rain Nanami feels replaced. At duel arena it has the same interpretation: now Anthy is protected by Utena (she holds red, royal umbrella).


Nanami's hair:
In Japan, it's not allowed to cut female's hair without her permission. Very often it's symbol of being raped or ashamed of smth. In the duel Utena-Nanami we can see that Nanami is humiliated.

Romanticide:
I really liked your interpretation od candle. Maybe flame can symbolise presence of Prince, maybe it's vestal fire? (From mythology, vestals were sacred virgins whose kept holy flame to burn still.) When she surrendered, candle fades.

Anthy on the cross:
we can see very similiar scene in Lady Oscar, and, as you know, Chico Saito was inspirated by Ryoko Ikeda.

Analysis about Ruka-Juri-Shiori triangle:
It's my favourite plot and I've spent much time for it. At first, I can't believe that Shiori loves Juri, I thought she's straight. She didn't choose Ruka, he picked her for his reason. He definitely loves Juri, and he wants her to forget about Shiori. He sacrified himself for her "freedom". (In next episodes Juri asks Utena about her picture; Juri's locket is broken what means that she HAS TO realse from her. She didn't want to fight without locket/Shiori, right? She lost her aim.)
Shiori isn't enough mature to love anyone- she's too concerned of yourself (she's afraid of being worse and being pathetic in relationship), she's also too proud to it (nor to confess her TRUE feelings, this pride unables her to let Ruka go).

*There was also a coffee cup with someone's (Tokiko's) lips imprinted on it. <-I guess it just goes to show the extent of obsessiveness Nemuro has for Tokiko?*
I'm not sure, but it seems that if you watch carefully dialogue between Akio and Mikage, you'll see lips print on the edge of Mikage's chemise. Maybe it's just my imagination, but i thought that Mikage and Tokiko have a romance (remember when she asked him: does geniuses fall in love?).

Mikage's madness:
does he lost his mind when Mamiya died?

I also wonder about 7th episode- every scene with nameless boy confuse me, mostly this:
(I apologise for my mistakes, I'm from Poland and english isn't my first language.)

dlaire wrote:

Shiori isn't enough mature to love anyone- she's too concerned of yourself (she's afraid of being worse and being pathetic in relationship), she's also too proud to it (nor to confess her TRUE feelings, this pride unables her to let Ruka go).

Does maturity really play a part in whether or not you can love someone? I'm sure that most people are often afraid that they will be worse off and pathetic in the relationship, perhaps wondering if they are good enough for their lover. Not wanting to confess her feelings is also what Juri deals with, isn't it?