That's the one. 
I was never clear about the Rinbu/Rondo thing. I saw it written both ways in roma-ji, but at the time I couldn't read a speck of Japanese, so I didn't understand why.  Related, I know the "mawaru" kanji used in Penguindrum's title isn't one of the 3 normally associated with that reading (周る、回る and 廻る), but is the kanji read as "rin" or "wa" that can mean ring or loop, plus the "ru" hiragana (輪る) which happens to be the same "rin" in "Rinbu Revolution". As far as I know, you can't just take "rin", add a "ru", and make "mawaru", so I think Ikuhara definitely plays fast and loose with his preferred kanji.

That's...very interesting!

This reminds me of when somebody here (satyreyes, I think might've been the one?) picked apart the official Utena Encyclopedia lyrics to Wakaba's duel theme (Magic Lantern Butterfly Moth 16th Century -- talk about word salad!), and had determined that the Romanization of "Piirasu" should not have been Paris, but instead Pyrrhus (trope namer for Pyrrhic Victory, which I believe the duel between the show's resident besties and the tearjerker ending to that episode certainly references*).

/rambling!Bio

*I haven't watched this episode yet, but I've absorbed the analysis everybody here's done like a microfiber shammy. Second best thing!

Atropos wrote:

^ Don't the references to "the walls of Troy" elsewhere in the song suggest otherwise?

Heh. Well, I'll be the first to admit I never really paid attention in class. Like, any of them. There's a reason I tell people not to believe me unless you confirm my data with a more credible source. *nodnod*

It wasn't me who had that idea.  It was DerJakob, here, who suggested Pyrrhus.

I notice with amusement that animelyrics.com translates the same word as "Byrsa," a Carthaginian citadel.  Carthage, of course, was involved in several wars with Rome, but never with Troy as far as I know; they are nowhere near each other.  Pyrrhus also had nothing to do with Troy.  Yes he did, just not the Pyrrhus most of us think of when we hear that name; Xu Yuan explains here why Pyrrhus is the most likely answer.  By contrast, while Paris is the central figure of the Trojan War, I can't remember where in the Iliad he "brings his sword down on the aged king."

Sorry, drifting OT.  It is indeed true that in music and in titles of things, Japanese authors sometimes play fast and loose with kanji, picking the kanji they prefer and assigning whatever reading they like to them.  I think the liner notes just took the kanji too literally; the word is clearly "utsuro."

Last edited by satyreyes (10-26-2013 06:20:17 AM)

Atropos wrote:

Ah! That makes sense, then.

...still doesn't explain what exactly the name "Magic Lantern Butterfly Moth 16th Century" is supposed to MEAN, but still...

I think it's not supposed to mean much of anything, just an ISO-standard word salad. IIRC, most of us are convinced that, like Ikuni himself, J.A. Seazer doesn't care if the lyrics/title to the music makes sense, so long as it sounds cool.

Which, to be quite frank, is something I know I'd do.

The "magic lantern" (gentou) refers to an old-fashioned type of slide projector. Wiki says the Magic Lantern was developed in the 17th century, but that similar devices had been created as early as 1650 or so. Since the device was used mostly by magicians, conjurers, and charlatans make people believe something was there that was not, it seems reminiscent of Akio's planetarium projector to me.  Without thinking about it too long, my basic analysis would be something like: Wakaba's duel sequence was the story of someone who, for a short time, was turned from moth to butterfly through the power of Akio's manipulations (the 16th Century charlatan machine), and the sudden return to moth status is what pushed her to become a black rose duelist.
Re: topic, any discussion of lyrics is on-topic to me. I'm sure there's a lot of lyric discussion I've missed, but there's also more than a few of these inconsistencies worth discussing, imo.

Atropos wrote:

I wouldn't look too deeply into it, since the duel music for the first two arcs was not written specifically for the show.

I vaguely recall reading that as well. Weren't those songs written for some older projects Seazer did in the Seventies or something?

It's true! But I very much doubt that they have no relevance, because Ikuhara was very clear that he wanted Seazer's music in SKU from the time he first thought of the series. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the conceptualization/idea gathering happened set to a soundtrack of these songs. So it's probably more that the songs influenced how the characters developed, rather than the other way around. And certainly the specific songs were chosen for each duel because of the lyric interpretations.