This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#51 | Back to Top01-11-2016 04:07:20 AM

Eldog123
New Student
Registered: 04-18-2015
Posts: 5

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

1. Sailor Moon (It was the very first anime I ever really watched and I love it so much, if it weren't for Sailor Moon I never would have gotten into SKU)
2. Utena
3. Yu-Gi-Oh (But the manga is infinitely better) 
and now i'm really into 90's and 80's anime and manga aesthetics and art.


Smash the world's shell.

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#52 | Back to Top01-11-2016 11:38:03 AM

Nocturnalux
Qualified Duellist
From: Portugal
Registered: 09-10-2007
Posts: 741

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Absolute Top, apart from SKU:
*Neon Genesis Evangelion
*Serial Experiments Lain
*Haibane Renmei
*Monster

Not quite as good but still favorites:
*Death Note
*Last Exile
*Soukyuu no Fafner
*Bokurano

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#53 | Back to Top01-11-2016 12:16:18 PM

BunB
Ohtori Paramouri
Registered: 11-03-2015
Posts: 91

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Legend of the Galactic Heroes easily. In some ways I prefer it to Utena.


Must the sign of the negative proposition be constructed by means of the sign of the positive? Why should one not be able to express the negative proposition by means of a negative fact?

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#54 | Back to Top01-11-2016 12:53:38 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Geez, every time I have to make a list of anime I get surprised all over again; I don't think of myself as being thaaat big an anime fan, so how come I've seen dozens of shows?  (And worse, how come there are so many I've mostly forgotten?  emot-gonk)

1. Utena.
2. Kino's Journey.

And that's where things get complicated.  It depends on whether my favorite anime are the ones that move me, the ones that excite me, or the ones that amaze me.

Love Track
3. Dennou Coil.
4. Time of Eve.
5. From the New World.

Lust Track
3. Higurashi When They Cry.
4. Death Note.
5. Hikaru no Go.

Awe Track
3. Monster.
4. Boogiepop Phantom.
5. Haibane Renmei.

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#55 | Back to Top01-12-2016 04:55:28 AM

Hjalmar
New Student
From: Poland
Registered: 03-28-2015
Posts: 6

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

satyreyes wrote:

Geez, every time I have to make a list of anime I get surprised all over again; I don't think of myself as being thaaat big an anime fan, so how come I've seen dozens of shows?  (And worse, how come there are so many I've mostly forgotten?  emot-gonk).

I've always considered anime quite... nonserious interest and somehow I managed to quickly get so into it and to remain oblivious... until I found out I got ahead of people who had been being anime fans for years before I picked interest in m&a. But I'm still keeping my anime and mangas hidden somewhere, so no one sees them XD I'm supposed to write dissertation about serious things after all... XD
But I have three categoties of favourite anime too. I simply can't compare brain damage with really good anime, right? But I love getting my brain damaged by really bad anime, so...

Really favourite:
1. Utena
2. Wolf's Rain
3. Kurau Phantom Memory
4. From the New World
5. Hourou Musuko
6. GitS
7. Death Parade
8. Red Garden

Brain-bleach (so bad it's good):
- Strawberry Panic
- Vividred Operation
- Dog Days
- Bakumatsu Rock
Yep, I have a terrible sense of humour.

Things that are nice, but I don't get obsessed with, so there's plenty of them and none is really favourite. I tend to recommend titles from this list to people as there are quite good shows, but nothing really special or extraordinary.

Last edited by Hjalmar (01-12-2016 04:58:00 AM)

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#56 | Back to Top01-13-2016 03:20:13 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

If you guys regard yourselves as casual anime fans and think you have difficulty naming or ordering a list of favorites, imagine being in my position, who has been watching continuously for almost twenty years. Let's see how many series I highly regard that I can name just off the top of my head, in no particular order:

Chihayafuru, Kids on the Slope, Aria, Sailor Moon (ORIGINAL ONLY, CRYSTAL IS GARBAGE) Saiunkoku Monogatari, Strawberry Panic, Sketchbook ~Full Color's~, Non Non Biyori, NieA_7 ("Niea Under Seven"), Kaleido Star, Princess Nine, Seirei no Moribito, Dirty Pair (original series), Bubblegum Crisis (original series), Rose of Versailles, Ace wo Nerae!, Aoi Hana, Blue Drop: Tenchi-tachi no Gikyoku, Nadia: Secret of Blue Water (not counting the "Nadia's Island" episodes, of course)...

(At this point, I look over my shelves and consult my digital archives to remind me of more.)

....Super Gals, Paradise Kiss, Battle Athletes (OVA and TV), Haibane Renmei, Kannazuki no Miko (a watershed in yuri anime), Figure 17, the usual Ghibli movies (Laputa, Kiki's Delivery Service, Whisper of the Heart, Grave of the Fireflies, and ESPECIALLY Nausicaa, as I've talked about here before), El-hazard (Original OVA and Wanderers, everything else was trash), Onii-sama e, Tamayura (Original OVA, everything after that has been meh), Hanasaku Iroha, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (not Vivid, sorry Vivio), Shugo Chara, Millennium Actress, Magnetic Rose, Maria-sama ga Miteru...

Now, if we were to broaden it from "highly regarded" to merely "fondly remembered", which ignores questions of quality and is simply a list of stuff I enjoyed:

Animation Runner Kuromi, Chance Pop Session, Kiddy Grade, Munto (movies, never saw the series), Rocket Girls, Vision of Escaflowne, Maze: The Megaburst Space (TV series, the OVA was meh), Gunsmith Cats, You're Under Arrest (Original OVA > Second TV Series > Movie > First TV Series > No Mercy special > Mini specials >>>>>> Third TV Series), Corrector Yui, Gunnm (aka "Battle Angel Alita"), Fist of the North Star, Slayers (every season was worse than the previous), Skip Beat, Ultra Maniac, A Little Snow Fairy Sugar, Pretear, Yawara!, Red Garden, El Cazador, Devil Lady (despite its great darkness), Air Master, Cleopatra D.C., Muteki Kanban Musume (aka "Ramen Fighter Miki"), Shamanic Princess, Plastic Little, Onegai Teacher (sue me, it was one of the first anime I ever saw), Night Walker, Ouran High School Host Club, Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito, Ninin ga Shinobu-den, Agent Aika (a guilty pleasure then and now), Candy Boy, Variable Geo, Re: Cutey Honey, Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl, Eyeshield 21, Nasu - Summer in Andalusia, Girlfriend Beta, Mouretsu Pirates, Saki, Girls Und Panzer, Yuyushiki, Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu Ka, Junjou Romantica, Spice and Wolf, RideBack, Jubei-chan, Aikatsu! (well, it's still airing), Binbou Shimai Monogatari, Kanamemo, Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu (aka "Legend of the Galactic Heroes"), Pretty Cure (original and Heartcatch mainly, though Dokidoki was alright too), Steel Angel Kurumi (season 2 mainly),  Yume-iro Patissiere, Seraphim Call...

....and so on, down into the level of "It was fine, but nothing really noteworthy" of which there are too many to count. Undoubtedly there are some more titles that belong among the above that I've forgotten or overlooked, as well.

But I haven't actually named the anime that I regard both as my favorite and as the greatest anime of all time. Yes, truly the greatest anime ever made. Although it wasn't always the case, I now place it even above Utena, as the very highest achievement in storytelling and world-evoking that anime can boast. And its name is...

http://i.imgur.com/9fyQnDx.png

Last edited by Aelanie (01-13-2016 03:33:27 AM)

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#57 | Back to Top01-13-2016 04:42:56 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Larger body of experience = longer list. emot-dance

I feel like I'm about to open a Kill La Kill IS THE BEST THING EVERRRR style can of worms here, but why Simoun? It's not an anime I hear mentioned often, and it bounced off me rather hard. It struck me kind of as a shoujo/yuri Gundam Wing? That's not to say it isn't amazing, which is why I ask someone that would know. You've got some mythic-level pieces of work on that list, so I'm curious what's putting it in the top spot for you?

(I hate you Millennium Actress. I hate you. Most of all because it's playing at a local theater next month which means I'm going to be forced to cry in front of people.)


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#58 | Back to Top01-13-2016 06:09:46 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

You're right that Simoun is an anime almost no one ever talks about, which I consider one of the greatest tragedies of anime fandom. Somehow it has been almost forgotten to history, which while certainly appropriate to the story itself, is a great sadness to me. It is a strange mixture of elements and genres, no doubt - science fiction, fantasy, romance (of all stripes), religion, war, gender issues, history, philosophy, metaphysics, among many others - and I think many people write it off as one thing or another too quickly, and so never pass into the fullness of the story and the characters. Simoun, more than any other show I can think of, is a show that once begun MUST be watched all the way through to the very end to truly be understood and appreciated. It is so much more than it appears to be at first.

In any case, you can read the write-up that I composed for it many years ago. These words have their own history too, as they were once lost and had to be pieced back together by me from various shards and my own memory, but here they are again taking flight once more at last. Be aware that some vague spoilers follow, but hopefully they will only whet your interest.

Simoun. It is the one of the finest examples of anime I have ever witnessed, and certainly one of the most overall superior anime series with yuri as a major element. The girl/girl relationships of Simoun, though, are but one brilliantly written and executed element of a story that encompasses so much more. One of the greatest anime series it has been my privilege to witness, the joy and sorrow, beauty and melancholy that Simoun will bring you is matched only by the questions it will leave you meditating on, forever. It is a story of breathtaking artistry and power, depth and maturity. The life breathed into the characters, their circumstances, their relationships…the story, the setting, the themes, the moods, the music, the artwork. It is superior in all ways. The final episode broke my heart. The final scene is one that I will remember for the rest of my life.

The hallmark of a truly immersive fantasy is when you feel as though you’re just getting a glance at something much deeper…that you are hearing only one narrative among countless others which will never be told. Simoun makes an art of creating this feeling. There are times when Simoun will give you what you want, but it will never be in quite the way you expected, nor will it ever be done in the way you might wish for the most. With a very few exceptions, this show is not interested in crowd-pleasing. There is so much I wish I could address, pages and pages of speculation, interpretation, and observation that I could write about the characters, their relationships, the setting, the mechanics of their world, the society of it, its past and future, and so on and on. I will say only this however, and those who have seen the show will understand me well:

In the end, Simoun is a tragedy. There are two facets to this tragedy, but they differ only in scale, not cause. There is the outer tragedy of a country torn apart by war, defeated and conquered, its people and land apportioned, its customs, religion, and way of life erased. All that they held dear, and all that they fought for has passed into history, forever gone. There is also a far more human tragedy. It is the passage of the years, the loss of innocence, the fading of vibrant youth into a mere nostalgic memory. The time when those young women stood united in faith and friendship and rode the holy Simoun, drawing prayers across the sky has passed into history, forever gone. These two tragedies are the same. It is the tragedy of times gone by, never to return. It is the tragedy that befalls anyone who has ever been happy, and wished desperately that those happy times could go on forever and ever. They cannot.

And yet, in the world of Simoun, there is an exception.

Through the power of their love, Aeru and Neviril step beyond the bounds of time and into...a different fate. An "eternal present". It's wrong of me, I know, to feel this sorrow. No one ever needed it less than they do. Even so, our final glimpse of them, blissful as they are, was the most heartbreaking moment I can remember witnessing in any story. We are so attached to our familiar human happinesses, and whatever their existence may be now...it is not the existence we know and cherish so much.

Simoun leaves us with so many unanswered questions. The hallmark of a truly captivating enigma is when you feel as though if you contemplated it just a little longer, a little harder, you could pierce the veil and gain some true insight into the heart of the mysteries. Simoun makes an art of creating this feeling. Certain logistical matters aside however, the lack of answers is not a failing of the show's storytelling, but far more intentional. As with Haibane Renmei, we're not supposed to know the answers. Like the characters themselves, we only get glimpses of what the truth might be.

Can the maidens who slip through time and space truly bring forth, not merely a better future, but also a better past and a better present as the stories say? Like the characters themselves, all we can do...is hope. Hope, and trust.

As indicated, there's so much more that I could say, but...I hope this may provoke you, and maybe others, to give it a chance. I'd love to hear some opinions on it from the many intelligent and eloquent members of this board.

Last edited by Aelanie (01-23-2016 07:22:54 AM)

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#59 | Back to Top01-13-2016 11:35:53 AM

Yams
Nest Boxer
From: Crystal Millenium
Registered: 02-13-2007
Posts: 973

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Simoun is frikkin' quality anime.


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/im%20holllowz_zpsx9ddh2gp.png~original

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#60 | Back to Top01-16-2016 06:20:03 AM

Hjalmar
New Student
From: Poland
Registered: 03-28-2015
Posts: 6

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Simoun is definiely great. I'd recommend it to anyone as a very good one. It has a wide diversity of motifs - probably wider than most of other things I've watched. But since my tastes are bad, it was never my favourite one.

I see Eyeshield 21 mentioned here - as for me, the best thing ever about sports. Perfect mix of humour, trainings, matches, side-stories important to the main plot, backstories of both team and opponents. How could I forget about it. It's unforgivable.

Last edited by Hjalmar (01-16-2016 06:20:15 AM)

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#61 | Back to Top01-20-2016 10:03:47 AM

Llarian
Miki Molester
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: 04-14-2012
Posts: 34
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

BunB wrote:

Legend of the Galactic Heroes easily. In some ways I prefer it to Utena.

I can't believe this is real life.  I love LoGH.

LoGH is only second to Samurai Champloo, which is and will always be my favorite.


What's the point? Art is so useless. It's such a waste of time!
And it's not like anyone else ever wastes time. It's not like you spend hours in front of the television or the computer accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Oh wait.

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#62 | Back to Top01-21-2016 02:50:11 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Aelanie wrote:

As indicated, there's so much more that I could say, but...I hope this may provoke you, and maybe others, to give it a chance. I'd love to hear some opinions on it from the many intelligent and eloquent members of this board.

Well that's certainly an endorsement of it! emot-keke

To be honest, I just don't watch anime much anymore as a rule, but if I get the bug I'll keep it on my list. emot-biggrin

I did just see Millennium Actress on a big screen though with Yasha and a friend. I cry like a lame wuss bitch at the end. Not a tear rolling down a cheek, legit trying not to sob. I blame the space-themed closing sequence. You attach emotion to a launching spaceship and I'm just fucked. (Interstellar omg) That really is one of the best movies I've ever seen, period. It's just like emotionally hard to watch, it's so good. I won't see it again for a long time because I hate crying.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#63 | Back to Top01-21-2016 10:09:27 AM

Llarian
Miki Molester
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: 04-14-2012
Posts: 34
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

Giovanna wrote:

I did just see Millennium Actress on a big screen though with Yasha and a friend. I cry like a lame wuss bitch at the end. Not a tear rolling down a cheek, legit trying not to sob. I blame the space-themed closing sequence. You attach emotion to a launching spaceship and I'm just fucked. (Interstellar omg) That really is one of the best movies I've ever seen, period. It's just like emotionally hard to watch, it's so good. I won't see it again for a long time because I hate crying.

Millennium Actress is amazing.  I cry every time. 

If you enjoy the turmoil of emotions attached to launching space ships, have you tried Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust?


What's the point? Art is so useless. It's such a waste of time!
And it's not like anyone else ever wastes time. It's not like you spend hours in front of the television or the computer accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Oh wait.

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#64 | Back to Top01-22-2016 10:00:19 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: if utena weren't your fav, what would be? and if it isnt, reeducate yo

We rewatched Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust with friend a little while ago! But you know, it didn't really make an impact on us. I think the difference there is the characterization. They really spend a lot of time making sure you know the most important things about every character in Millennium Actress but in contrast VHD:B just kinda tells you things and expects you to accept it. That's not to say I don't enjoy it! It's beautiful, but if I show it to a group of friends I find it's better as background noise than something I want everyone to sit down and watch.

Okay, though, the best quote from me and Gio and our friend Liv after Millennium Actress was over-- "I'm not crying, I'm just allergic to sadness!"


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