This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top11-23-2013 08:07:17 AM

Rosesareawesome101
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Brisbane
Registered: 10-31-2012
Posts: 194

Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

So remember one of my much better thread back in December/January were we discuss what we consider to be the best duels themes, this is a variation of that thread this time being more of a ranking then personal favorite.
-I encourage users to rank every theme including both the movie and game but if you are unable to access the movie and especially the game, I recommend you ether skip the duel themes in your ranks or listen to them online; I'll go into more detail in the next paragraph.

Their are several Youtube channels that have upload the several original soundtracks from the show and movie and if you read the audiology, you know that duel themes from the video game are in ost 3 and ost 7 & 8 have the ones from the movie even if ost 7 has a earlier but better versions then the more compressed versions in the movie, Just search Utena Ost 3 into the search bar and you'll find decent results, Here the most popular uploaders:
Spoonsan has pretty much upload all of the first 4 soundtracks
Utenosama has uploaded most of the duel themes from the show with footage from the duels themselves which is useful if you are doing amv and want footage with almost no sound
LudwigAddiction has uploaded the entire movie ost
These are the sources I tend to go to if I want to listen anything utena related and the sound quality is somewhat decent, if you have sources that somewhat much better please link them and let me know why.

Edit: I've Simplified the rules to give users a lot more freedom and remove the sentence to prevent the thread from coming off as forced in any way.

Last edited by Rosesareawesome101 (11-24-2013 11:12:24 PM)

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#2 | Back to Top11-24-2013 12:22:40 AM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

It never will, considering the amount of work you want us to do. I think most people only have a few standout favorites that they even remember the names of. You want us to go and have to research ALL of them and their Japanese and English titles and decide which we like more than which, and for the game too, which most of us probably haven't played? Really?

And you can't even be bothered to start it off in your own thread - presumably because you wanted us to do all that paperwork for you? I don't think so. How about this instead:

1. Yomigaere! Mukyuu no Rekishi "Chuusei" yo
2. Virtual Star Hasseigaku
3. Inside the Body of the Paleozoic Era (don't know the Japanese title offhand)
4. Shura - Nikutai Seiza Alpha Psi Zeta Seiun
5. Everything Else

Last edited by Aelanie (11-24-2013 12:36:59 AM)

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#3 | Back to Top11-24-2013 02:11:32 AM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Aelanie, I feel that this might have been unnecessarily harsh

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#4 | Back to Top11-24-2013 05:15:12 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

You've got some points, Aelanie, but tone down the aggression please. It honestly sounds like you're taking the OP personally.

Rosesareawesome101, she's right. You're not going to get enough replies to post your own list. Your rules are far too specific and demanding. This isn't a college paper and we don't get paid to be here, we're here to enjoy ourselves and the majority will not find the level of detail you want enjoyable.


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#5 | Back to Top11-24-2013 11:35:34 PM

Rosesareawesome101
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Brisbane
Registered: 10-31-2012
Posts: 194

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Yasha wrote:

You've got some points, Aelanie, but tone down the aggression please. It honestly sounds like you're taking the OP personally.

Rosesareawesome101, she's right. You're not going to get enough replies to post your own list. Your rules are far too specific and demanding. This isn't a college paper and we don't get paid to be here, we're here to enjoy ourselves and the majority will not find the level of detail you want enjoyable.

Thanks Yasha, I'll try to be careful when it comes to doing rules for these kind of thread, another problem is that the post for my threads have been declining, I somewhat blame it on my asshole-ish to other user's inluding Aelanie in my review of the movie based on the show, Gorgeousshutin in the Evangelion 3.0 review thread where I completely discarded her opinion regarded and completely oblivious to that movie's flaws and then there was my reply to Decrescent Daytripper in the Juri thread which exemplified how butthurt I am when it comes to accepting other people's opinion so yeah I could see why Aelanie replied to this thread with a cynical tone.

Also you should read this thread I've posted, It barely has any views yet It one of few thread I did not regret posting unlike that Disney thread or the Juri thread:
http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=3497
I don't know why people haven't that thread because it one of the few threads that analyse the show from a technical standpoint thought it might need some editing to some thing but its ok.

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#6 | Back to Top11-25-2013 09:09:42 AM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

On a different note:  is there a list out there, if anyone remembers, of the different duel themes & their episode numbers on the forum or EM?  I was just wondering about this the other day & poked around for a little while, but didn't see anything that jumped out at me on the Master Analysis list (also, I might very well be blind).  That might be a helpful place to start & definitely something that would be handy dandy to have around!

Last edited by cscratch (11-25-2013 09:10:02 AM)

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#7 | Back to Top11-25-2013 02:49:24 PM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Okay!  I was bored so I came up with a chart of all the duel song names, the duel names, the character featured, episode number with links to translations (here on ohtori.nu) & the Youtube selections for the duel song featured.

I had waaaaay too much time on my hands today.  But!  I was looking for something like this just trying to remember what each duelists songs were & what episodes the duels occur in.  Fancified, it's not, but highly functional!

Anywho, hope something like this comes in handy!

http://kittyfire.com/temp/utena_duel_songs.html poptart

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#8 | Back to Top11-25-2013 03:45:04 PM

Snow
Troublesome Insect
From: under the dogstar sail
Registered: 09-30-2013
Posts: 643

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

cscratch, this is awsumsauce! Crisp, clean, wonderful! Thank you etc-love

*proceeds to annoy neighbors with amateur karaoke version of Chikyuu wa Jinbutsu*

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#9 | Back to Top11-25-2013 07:43:38 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Damn, that's awesome! Thanks so much!


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#10 | Back to Top11-25-2013 11:59:27 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

That is a pretty great contribution to not just this thread, but the fandom generally, cscratch!  emot-aaa  Gio, can EM host this?

The Japanese name of Virtual Star Embryology is Virtual Star Hasseigaku, so you can fill that empty cell!  And will you remind me where the duel names beyond the Student Council Arc come from?  I know I've seen them before, but I don't know who came up with them or why they repeat!

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#11 | Back to Top11-26-2013 12:09:10 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

When we revamp Audiology, I would like to include this-- as long as cscratch is okay with it. How about it, cscratch? Can I put this in Audiology?


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#12 | Back to Top11-26-2013 07:40:33 AM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Oh yes, totally!  Please host away, change, play, rip up, whatever!  It's definitely out there for everyone.

The duel names I pulled off an old thread here on EM:  http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=40  It looks like they came form the booklet in the complete CD box set & looks like the consensus is generally 'WTF?' on the repeated duel names from the last arc, as evidenced about the Japanese blog posted that posted them:  http://utena2.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/20 … d2a_1.html   So we're not the only fans scratching our heads about who fell asleep naming the 'official' last arc duels.

Last edited by cscratch (11-26-2013 07:41:06 AM)

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#13 | Back to Top11-26-2013 07:47:09 AM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Thanks for that!  I just updated the list with the Japanese translation for Virtual Star Embryology. 

One other thing I noticed is that I did not see a translation for Virtual Star Hasseigaku in Audiology, so I provided a link to a site I found by googling that has the translation.  I may have just missed it on ohtori.nu somewhere...

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#14 | Back to Top11-26-2013 07:48:44 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Nope, for some reason it's not in there. I was looking for it a while back and noticed that. We figured it's not urgent, so it'll just get fixed in the revamp.

Thanks so much for making the list, though. That's fantastic and I'm not sure why we never thought of it. emot-redface I'm so glad you did it!


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#15 | Back to Top11-26-2013 08:38:10 AM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

No problemo!  Just one of those things that's a handy reference & anytime!

Also, I just updated the list with the two game duel songs & the two movie duel songs.  I'm afraid I don't know much about the game, so I wasn't sure if both or either of the songs played for specific duels or rotated to whomever you happen to be dueling?  I found a youtube clip for Utena dueling Chisuga to Gertzen's Head, so I basically popped her name in there for that song.   If anyone has any info on these for the game, I'll update it again.

For the movie, I wonder if the two duels actually received names.  I'm guessing that they might not have bothered for these, but hey, you never know.  If anybody has any insight, it would be good info to have.

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#16 | Back to Top11-26-2013 09:08:52 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Interesting.  The Adolescence of Utena songs you've got on the table are not quite right.  The first song, Saionji's, should be "Yomigaere! Mukyuu no Rekishi 'Chuusei' yo," but you've got "Asutoragarusu Chikyuu Sugoroku" instead.  I have most definitely heard the latter -- and I loved it, especially the breakdown at the end! -- but I don't remember where it comes from; it is certainly not a series or movie duel song.  The second song, Juri's, should be "Shura - Nikutai Seiza Alpha Psi Zeta Seiun."  Here you have the Listen link pointing to the right place, but the title is listed incorrectly.  I Googled up the one you listed, "Kaigetsu Ai ni Shisu," and I've never heard it.

I suspect that Asutoragarasu and Kaigetsu are OST songs that never made it into SKU media, and that I've heard Asutoragarasu before on an OST.  (If I recall correctly, the duel songs were all drawn from Seazer's existing body of work and were not made specifically for SKU, which explains why there are extras.)

It might be useful to add Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku to the list, too emot-smile

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#17 | Back to Top11-26-2013 10:41:15 AM

cscratch
Anthy Assailer
From: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Registered: 07-07-2008
Posts: 70
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Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Cool - thanks for that!  I probably got them mixed up with all the windows I had open to different stuffs - it should be corrected now.

Just let me know if you notice anything else off!

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#18 | Back to Top11-26-2013 02:50:02 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

satyreyes wrote:

If I recall correctly, the duel songs were all drawn from Seazer's existing body of work and were not made specifically for SKU, which explains why there are extras.

That's correct, or more accurately, most of them were not made for SKU. A few were, I believe, although I don't know offhand which those are.

In any case, a great amount of Seazer's 70's-era work with Banyuu Inryoku is included in the Utena CD Box, including numerous tracks that are not in the show or movie. There are also songs in the musical that were not in the animated works, I believe.

Incidentally, some of the Seazer originals were also used as alternate versions in the show itself, such as with Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku and Virtual Star Hasseigaku.

Anyway, I notice some of these youtube links go to the Utena rerecorded versions of the songs, and some to the Seazer originals. It would be much more valuable as a reference resource if it linked clearly to both versions of each, whenever possible.

Last edited by Aelanie (11-26-2013 03:09:51 PM)

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#19 | Back to Top11-26-2013 04:08:34 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

^ True, but we simply can't find the original versions of some songs. They were in experimental Japanese theatre forty years ago. They ain't coming back emot-frown

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#20 | Back to Top11-26-2013 06:03:49 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

As I just said, all of the Seazer original versions of the tracks used in the show were included in the Utena CD Box, and more besides that were not even used in the show. In other words, they are easily available and most probably all on youtube.

Last edited by Aelanie (11-26-2013 06:08:19 PM)

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#21 | Back to Top11-26-2013 06:30:52 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Uh, no, no they weren't. Speaking as someone who HAS the Utena CD Box....

This is the sort of thing Allegoriest would have something to say about. emot-gonk E's possibly the only person who watched SKU to hear Seazer music.

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#22 | Back to Top11-26-2013 07:51:30 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Also speaking as someone who HAS the Utena CD Box...

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h342/Cryssoberyl/DSC00375.png

I don't remember any offhand that were left off, but if any are missing, then those must be the ones that were written purely for the show, and have no "original" version.

Last edited by Aelanie (11-26-2013 07:55:41 PM)

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#23 | Back to Top11-26-2013 08:00:23 PM

Rosesareawesome101
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Brisbane
Registered: 10-31-2012
Posts: 194

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Aelanie wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

If I recall correctly, the duel songs were all drawn from Seazer's existing body of work and were not made specifically for SKU, which explains why there are extras.

That's correct, or more accurately, most of them were not made for SKU. A few were, I believe, although I don't know offhand which those are.

In any case, a great amount of Seazer's 70's-era work with Banyuu Inryoku is included in the Utena CD Box, including numerous tracks that are not in the show or movie. There are also songs in the musical that were not in the animated works, I believe.

Incidentally, some of the Seazer originals were also used as alternate versions in the show itself, such as with Zettai Unmei Mokushiroku and Virtual Star Hasseigaku.

Anyway, I notice some of these youtube links go to the Utena rerecorded versions of the songs, and some to the Seazer originals. It would be much more valuable as a reference resource if it linked clearly to both versions of each, whenever possible.

Interesting, I would like to listen to those original mixes of the songs before they were rerecorded for utena, like I know that Both of the duel theme plus the opening music in movie were originally part of Ost 7 which was a concept album by Seazer himself and had the Utena name slap on after his boost in popularity with Utena; But I don't know about the other Duel theme so can someone upload the original version of these song online from the CD box via Youtube and PM me the link.

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#24 | Back to Top11-27-2013 10:26:35 AM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

Aelanie wrote:

I don't remember any offhand that were left off, but if any are missing, then those must be the ones that were written purely for the show, and have no "original" version.

Ahem.

So, the original versions for most of the Black Rose arc songs are missing, as is Touga's first duel theme.

In addition, I don't think the tracks included on OST 4 are "original" versions at allas the Audiology page says, they're "remixes" in Seazer's own style, still hewing fairly close to the show. The original Seazer tracks included in OST 8 are much longer and weirder.

Last edited by Atropos (11-27-2013 11:02:14 AM)

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#25 | Back to Top11-27-2013 01:31:31 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Rank your duel themes from best to worst.

I stand corrected about the missing tracks, then. I would never have thought so many were missing, and admittedly it's been a long while since I delved into the CD Box closely. Perhaps you're right, and there are no currently available online recordings of those particular originals - although I also think it's possible that a person with knowledge of written Japanese might have more luck delving through the Internet than we imagine.

Regardless, my original point stands that, wherever possible, the older Seazer versions and the Utena show versions should be noted and linked seperately.

Last edited by Aelanie (11-27-2013 01:39:08 PM)

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