This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top10-19-2006 11:15:27 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

The names of the duels...

This has bothered me for an absurd amount of time and waited specifically for the forum to come up to ask this question, what are the rest of the duel's names? On your character guid you give the duel names to some of the Black Rose duelists, but that's there only mention. I'd like to know where you found the duel names for the Black Rose Arc and if there are duel names for the Apocalypse Arc. That one video with Akio in it showed a bunch of french words passby, but I doubt any duel was called "salut" meaning hello.

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#2 | Back to Top10-19-2006 11:23:10 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 719

Re: The names of the duels...

Hey, I asked the webmistresses this myself at some point, and they never responded! Where did you find the names of the Black Rose duels? In some obscure artbook? What's the entire list? We, the assembled fandom, demand satisfaction! And the duel names!

And no, the duel names in "Sex, Lies, & Roses" seem to be pretty clearly not legitimate. "Est-il moi?"

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#3 | Back to Top10-19-2006 11:33:00 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

Re: The names of the duels...

Uh... right, yeah good point. Guess I was simply using wishful thinking, (boy do I do that alot) Though they do seem plausible in the least... but I can't remember if this is fan or official, Keko's duel, if I remember right is called "Inferuire" is that right?

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#4 | Back to Top10-19-2006 11:44:59 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

Dallbun wrote:

Hey, I asked the webmistresses this myself at some point, and they never responded!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGH I'M SORRRRRRRRRRRRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! emot-gonk

I actually couldn't find out, and I guess that mail got 'lost' somehow in one of my many reformats. Many apologies, Dallbun, I knew someone had asked, but I couldn't remember who, and literally hundreds of people have emailed me.

I know the original arc were named in the show. Gio says the BRS were named based on descriptions in one of the artbooks, I don't know which but I'll check if you want. And like I had originally thought, any duel name post-BRS is fan-made, but there was a lot of agreement among the fanfiction writers that they were so good they were almost canon.


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#5 | Back to Top10-19-2006 11:57:37 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

Re: The names of the duels...

That would indeed be a large favor , thank you. So what are the fan (now widely accepted) names for the duels?

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#6 | Back to Top10-20-2006 12:01:47 AM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: The names of the duels...

Damned if I remember what they are, that was a couple years ago and I never used them for anything. I'll take a look around and see if I can find them, though I would encourage you all to do the same, as I'm going to be too busy for research for the next 18 or so hours.


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#7 | Back to Top10-20-2006 07:32:25 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
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Re: The names of the duels...

Yasha wrote:

I know the original arc were named in the show. Gio says the BRS were named based on descriptions in one of the artbooks, I don't know which but I'll check if you want. And like I had originally thought, any duel name post-BRS is fan-made, but there was a lot of agreement among the fanfiction writers that they were so good they were almost canon.

This is all truth. As to the BRS names, here they are:

Wakaba: limite
Shiori: jalousis
Kozue: attache
Tsuwabuki: impatience
Kanae: alieation

I apparently neglected to copy Keiko's out of the artbook, I think it was the Art Collection, so that one Yasha would have to check.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#8 | Back to Top10-20-2006 11:40:55 AM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

Re: The names of the duels...

So... Mikage's duel name isn't mentioned then I take it? Thougj  I must thank you for getting this down, thank you.

Last edited by Xu Yuan (10-20-2006 11:51:47 AM)

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#9 | Back to Top10-20-2006 12:43:10 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

...They had semiofficial names?  Cooool!

When I ran the UCJAS Revolution, I really wanted the subject lines of the emails announcing the duels to always be the name of the upcoming duel, so I made them up.  I still giggle over remembering the names I gave the second-season duels:

Labourer.  Semer.  Pleuvoir.  Pousser.  Croître.  Bourgeonner.  Fleurir.

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#10 | Back to Top10-20-2006 12:46:25 PM

Xu Yuan
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 190

Re: The names of the duels...

Not a French expert, what do those mena anyway?

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#11 | Back to Top10-20-2006 12:49:42 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

Xu Yuan wrote:

Not a French expert, what do those mena anyway?

Yeah, explain! I may be Canadian, but my 7th grade french teacher preferred to teach the subject 'Days of our Lives' or perhaps 'Young and the Restless' to the subject of French. I learned a lot about some bitch getting possessed on some stupid soap opera, but no French.

I'm still mad! emot-mad


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#12 | Back to Top10-20-2006 05:30:51 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: The names of the duels...

To till.  To sow.  To rain.  To sprout.  To grow.  To bloom.  To blossom.

...That is, the titles of the manga, with a couple others inserted; there were more than five duels that season, so I needed extra names.  I was going to use "to pluck" if I needed another name, but the last duel ended up not happening.  (I was expecting Mikage to have to duel Geoff before the latter would turn over the Rose Bride, but Geoff turned out to be surprisingly cooperative.  See the thread at http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?id=21 if you have no idea what I'm talking about.)

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#13 | Back to Top10-20-2006 08:56:43 PM

Yasha
Bitch Queen
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: 10-15-2006
Posts: 6031
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Re: The names of the duels...

The duel names from the Art Collection are as follows:

Kanae - alieation
Kozue - attache
Shiori - jalousis
Tsuwabuki - impatience
Wakaba - limite
Keiko - dependance

And I have looked around a bit, and so far cannot find the list of fan-made names for the last duels. If you like, think of some. I'm sure you can come up with good ones!


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#14 | Back to Top10-21-2006 07:30:56 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: The names of the duels...

satyreyes wrote:

Labourer.  Semer.  Pleuvoir.  Pousser.  Croître.  Bourgeonner.  Fleurir.

In english, they translate as:
Labourer = To plow.
Semer = To sow.
Pleuvoir = To rain.
Pousser = To push.
Croître = To grow.
Bourgeonner = To bud.
Fleurir = To flower.

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#15 | Back to Top11-16-2008 11:51:15 PM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

Yasha wrote:
Kanae - alieation
Kozue - attache
Shiori - jalousis
Tsuwabuki - impatience
Wakaba - limite
Keiko - dependance

Are these names in French? I know the meanings are similar to what they are in English, but would anyone mind translating for me? For instance I don't know what "limite" would be, other than maybe "limit" as in Wakaba had reached her limit? And that sounds er...wrong. emot-confused

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#16 | Back to Top11-23-2008 01:04:44 PM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: The names of the duels...

I do have to agree with Sharnii here on the French translations here. I'm trying to redo my LJ bio, and I'd kind of like to know how these translate. Also, for the sake of having the info in one place, the French duel names for the first arc are as follows, correct?

amitie - Friendship
choix - Choice
raison - Reason
amour - Love
adoration - Adoration
conviction - Conviction
soi - Self

And the last question I have to ask is if there's an easier way to figure out whose duel is which name than to go through and rewatch the series?


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#17 | Back to Top11-24-2008 07:40:07 AM

Leroy
Eternal Castellan
From: Plano, TX
Registered: 11-16-2008
Posts: 276
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

Lady Chani wrote:

And the last question I have to ask is if there's an easier way to figure out whose duel is which name than to go through and rewatch the series?

Those are in order.

Friendship - Saionji
Choice - Saionji
Reason - Miki
Love - Jury
Adoration - Nanami
Conviction - Touga
Self - Touga


~ Dreaming of my Fire Flower ~

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#18 | Back to Top11-24-2008 01:25:57 PM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: The names of the duels...

Oh, thank you~ thank you very much!


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#19 | Back to Top11-24-2008 10:58:04 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: The names of the duels...

Leroy wrote:

Friendship - Saionji
Choice - Saionji
Reason - Miki
Love - Jury
Adoration - Nanami
Conviction - Touga
Self - Touga

Just a question to throw out there, related to these duel names.

Does anyone else use these as sort of.....touch stones for the character when approaching fanfic/fanart/roleplaying/AMV/analysis whatever sort of fandom floats your boat?

I write/roleplay/draw Juri a lot, and whenever I do I remember her duel name and use that as sort of the....core of her character. What she always returns to, her motivation, her...touch stone is a really odd concept I know but its the best I can do. I also tend to think of Friendship as the key to  Saionji's character (I think I go into this quite a bit in the "Why Saionji is a Dick" thread).

Anyone else do this with these characters?


20 threads dead so far.

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#20 | Back to Top12-17-2008 03:38:44 AM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2507
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

The scenario books from the show, by Yoji Enokido, Bara no Hanayome and Bara no Kokuin, list some of the duels, but not all of them. (I sent scans of this to someone, I think Yasha, but I don't have them anymore, and I won't have my scanner for like a month.)

With less Frenchy accent thingies! I can't type those.

Kanae- alienation
Kozue- attache
Shiori- jalousis
Tsuwabuki- impatience
Wakaba- limite
Keiko- dependance
Mikage- conscience

Saionji- relation
Miki- tentation

The books don't cover every episode, and since those two are the only ones scripted, they're the only ones mentioned in the notes in the end. boo.

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#21 | Back to Top05-30-2010 08:17:25 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 719

Re: The names of the duels...

Glancing at Japanese Wikipedia, I noticed that it lists all the duel names. I did a little investigation, and apparently they're written in the booklet of the Complete CD Box. They're all the same as previously established, but the names of the four unaccounted-for duels are also listed! Yaaaay! ...right?

Except, uh... I'm not sure what to make of them. emot-confused The Japanese fan reaction also seems to be "WTF, Yoji Enokido."

Saionji 1 (友情)amitie
Saionji 2 (選択)choix
Miki 1 (理性)raison
Juri 1 (恋愛)amour
Nanami 1 (崇拝)adoration
Touga 1 (信念)conviction
Touga 2 (自分)soi

Kanae (疎外)alieation
Kozue (執着)attache
Shiori (嫉妬)jalousis
Tsuwabuki (焦燥)impatience
Wakaba (限界)limite
Keiko (依存)dependance
Mikage (自覚)conscience

Saionji 3 (関係)relation
Miki 2 (誘惑)tentation
Ruka (友情)amitie
Juri 2 (選択)choix
Nanami 2 (友情)amitie
Touga 3 (選択)choix

Akio (革命)revolution

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#22 | Back to Top05-30-2010 08:31:12 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

... uhm.

Utena doesn't waffle that much near the end of the series.


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#23 | Back to Top05-31-2010 03:27:38 PM

allegoriest
Delicious Duellist
From: Cloudcuckooland
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2507
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

I saw that a while back too, and I was like, WTF?

I still refuse to acknowledge them.

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#24 | Back to Top05-31-2010 07:16:05 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: The names of the duels...

Dude, did they just text him while they were printing them like 'hay what should we call the other duels'

I disagree and suggest we make our own names for them since we're obviously more invested in it now. emot-mad


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#25 | Back to Top05-31-2010 08:12:47 PM

Dallbun
Tour Guide to Crawling Chaos
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 719

Re: The names of the duels...

Now that I think about it, I wonder if it wasn't just some misunderstanding, or misprint, or something. I mean, if they'd just reused the names of former duels, then yes, I'd suspect laziness. But reusing the names of the first two duels... twice? That can't even be the conscious decision of a sentient person, right? emot-frown

Ah, if only we had Yoji Enokido's e-mail address. Failing that, I agree that fanon names would be better than this rather questionable canon.

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