This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top03-25-2009 09:42:16 AM

Leroy
Eternal Castellan
From: Plano, TX
Registered: 11-16-2008
Posts: 276
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Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

So I'm doing movie night with mah new friend and I was contemplating showing the Utena movie (oh how I wish I had it on Blu-Ray, but that's another topic for another day). My question is basically, how hard would the movie be to follow having never seen the series? I know that the movie probably stands on its own but it DOES assume you know the characters and such to a small degree (would the Miki/Kozue bathtub scene be half as awesome if you didn't know they were brother/sister, for example).

Anyway, just checking in to see if anybody watched the movie first or shown the movie first and had opinion on it, etc.


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#2 | Back to Top03-25-2009 10:07:24 AM

Imaginary Bad Bug
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie before the series, and for me that actually worked, as the movie was so surreal and abstract that it only increased my interest in seeing the series.  I had no idea what happened in the movie the first time, nor was I able to figure out anything about the characters or their motivations, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit thanks to its surreal and abstract nature, as well as the soundtrack.

I can easily see how watching the movie first could turn someone off though.  If they aren't into symbolism and highly abstract film, watching the movie first could backfire big time.  If they do like the artistic qualities of a movie of that kind though, it could work in their favor.

IMO, it's a risky move to see the movie first.  Your friend could either be drawn instantly to it by the way it's presented, or be pushed far far away because of how abstract and reliant on previous knowledge it is.

That's just my take on it, as someone who saw the movie first.


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#3 | Back to Top03-25-2009 11:10:27 AM

End of the Tour
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From: The Nowhere Islands
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie first, and I have to agree that it really depends on the person.  Do you know how your new friend reacts to the surreal and confusing?  If you don't know, maybe you should have, say, David Lynch night before deciding whether to show the movie before the series.

I'm honestly having a lot of fun showing friends of mine the series and countering their expressions of confusion with "just wait until you see the movie!".  (And they're still in the normal duels!)


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#4 | Back to Top03-25-2009 11:23:23 AM

Maarika
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From: Estonia
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw about ten episodes of the series and then I watched the movie. I don't think it influenced my interest in the TV series, they are really quite different from each other yet they are essentially about the same thing. I still don't feel comfortable about recommending the movie to just anybody, unless I know the person can appereciate surrealism. The TV series is much easier to watch, you can enjoy it even if you don't get all the symbolism. But I have to agree with the others, it depends on the person.


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#5 | Back to Top03-25-2009 11:26:26 AM

Leroy
Eternal Castellan
From: Plano, TX
Registered: 11-16-2008
Posts: 276
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

End of the Tour wrote:

I saw the movie first, and I have to agree that it really depends on the person.  Do you know how your new friend reacts to the surreal and confusing?

We just watched The Fountain and she was MESMERIZED.


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#6 | Back to Top03-27-2009 02:38:10 PM

P.D.M.
Touga Topper
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 06-24-2008
Posts: 54

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I well and truly believe that the series MUST be watvhed before the movie, so that you can TRULY get trolled when you watch the movie.


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#7 | Back to Top03-27-2009 02:51:43 PM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2354

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie first and didn't understand a lick of it until I read a review and guide to the symbolism. It's a bad idea unless you're high or make experimental films.


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#8 | Back to Top03-27-2009 03:08:12 PM

Baka Kakumei Reanna
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From: Wisconsin
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I dunno. I suppose it would depend on the person. In a way, I suppose it could almost be a quick litmus test. If you can watch the movie and not be severely disturbed or have your head explode, you're probably good for the series.

But back when I was in college, I felt sadistic and brought in the movie to play to our anime club. Somehow, it got voted into our viewing schedule for that night (along with Excel Saga, of all things). Most people there had never seen the series, and there was severe confusion.


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#9 | Back to Top03-27-2009 05:29:47 PM

Alan
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 03-16-2009
Posts: 17
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie before the TV series, and understood very little of it...but liked it pretty well anyway. I wouldn't recommend that order for most people though; I mean, ignoring symbolism for a moment, some characters don't make any sense unless you kind of know what their deal is from the TV series (e.g. Shiori).

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#10 | Back to Top03-28-2009 01:05:16 AM

Alithea
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From: Westminster, CO
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 1152
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I would recommend against it. I think the movie can skew ones point of view towards certain characters. But that's just my opinion.


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#11 | Back to Top03-28-2009 02:14:04 AM

Aelanie
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Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

An opinion I agree with. As much as the movie is a whole different animal from the series, you need to have watched the series first to understand the differences, which are key to understanding the movie.

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#12 | Back to Top03-28-2009 03:39:59 AM

Aine Silveria
Pumpkin Bride
From: Allegan, MI
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 2098

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

A fair compromise is to do what I ended up doing, and watch the movie after you've seen some of the series. I had watched the first arc, then the movie, then the rest of the series. It worked pretty well for me, anyway.


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#13 | Back to Top03-28-2009 05:19:11 PM

Raven Nightshade
Someday Shiner
From: Louisiana
Registered: 12-17-2006
Posts: 2925

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Lady Chani wrote:

A fair compromise is to do what I ended up doing, and watch the movie after you've seen some of the series. I had watched the first arc, then the movie, then the rest of the series. It worked pretty well for me, anyway.

That could work. The first arc gives enough of a framework that you could watch the movie and not get confused. The only things that might fly overhead are Movie Akio, Kanae, and the three seconds of the Nanami-cow. And honestly, despite all the screentime Makio gets, he's more of a symbol than an actual character to me.


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#14 | Back to Top03-28-2009 07:27:06 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Aelanie wrote:

An opinion I agree with. As much as the movie is a whole different animal from the series, you need to have watched the series first to understand the differences, which are key to understanding the movie.

But the movie can be enjoyed even if it's not understood. I saw the movie first, didn't understand a minute of it, and loved it.  When I finally did see the series, comparing them wasn't even an issue because I couldn't really follow the movie the first time anyway.  After I saw the series and I was able to understand the movie, it (the movie) got even better in my mind.  Seeing the movie first did not affect my impressions of the series when I saw that for the first time either.

Movie first can work, it just depends on the person. Understanding the movie doesn't need to be a requirement for enjoying it, imo.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (03-28-2009 07:27:57 PM)


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#15 | Back to Top03-28-2009 07:33:25 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Ideally its better to watch the series first before the movie or the manga but in Australia they released the movie years before the anime and the anime was never shown on Australian TV as far as I know.

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#16 | Back to Top04-05-2009 01:37:32 PM

Shinolala2
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From: U.S.A.
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Posts: 431
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

best to actually read the mangas then watch the series, then read the movie manga and then watch the movie because alot of people get confuesed on the whole series if they watch it backwards.


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#17 | Back to Top04-05-2009 01:47:34 PM

Aelanie
Black Rosarian
Registered: 02-04-2009
Posts: 378

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Actually, I disagree...the mangas (if read at all), should be read after watching the respective animation. That would indeed be doing it "backwards"...

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#18 | Back to Top04-06-2009 03:20:23 PM

hollow_rose
Egghead
From: Ohio
Registered: 10-26-2008
Posts: 1074

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I think you could probably watch the movie first. Although there is a lot of subtext missing that relies on knowledge of the anime, so the person might be confused. And then in order to explain the odd subtext in the movie you might have to bring in spoilers for the anime. I watched the anime first personally its hard for me to say. The movie also might be off-putting what with the cars and all.


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#19 | Back to Top04-06-2009 04:45:24 PM

KissingT.Kiryuu
Hentai Hero!!!
From: Somewhere and Nowhere
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Posts: 4090
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie before the series myself and i honestly don't think it matters. Either way you are going to see it all and i don't think the experience will be any different.


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#20 | Back to Top04-08-2009 01:24:10 AM

bella
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 11-04-2006
Posts: 581

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I saw the movie before the series. To me, this was a bad move; I found the movie so incredibly confusing because I was completely unfamiliar with all of the characters. Even though the movie and series are very different, I think that seeing the series first helps as a method of comparison. Seeing the movie did increase my interest in seeing the series, however, because I wanted to make sense of things.


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#21 | Back to Top04-13-2009 12:14:49 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

I watched the moive prior to the TV series. Being a very shallow person, I completely ignored the deeper meanings of the film. All I really noticed was Movie Anthy's long hair and her many interactions with Movie Utena. Watching the two of them in the fim was like getting an ever escalating nicotine rush, it was just that great (although it stopped dead when Utena transformed into a car and replaced by ever escalating question marks). Minutes after the film ended, I was prompted to search for the TV series. In two days' time I was done with the series.

There are elements in the movie that I wish are in the series too (Why Anthy didn't let her hair down more often?!?!?! Why Utena never touched Anthy the way she did in the film?!?!?!?! Why Anthy never teased Utena the way she did in the film?!?!?!?!?!). On the other hand, there are elements in the series I wish are in the movie as well (Where's the million swords of hate???? Where's the infamous naked Anthy?!?!?!?!?!?!). What I meant to say is they compliment each other. It really doesn't matter which one you watch first~

P.S. Ha, I think this post reveals the true pervert that exists within me.... emot-rofl

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#22 | Back to Top04-13-2009 12:45:04 PM

The_A_Man
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From: Canada
Registered: 02-22-2009
Posts: 9107
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Itsuke wrote:

There are elements in the movie that I wish are in the series too (Why Anthy didn't let her hair down more often?!?!?! Why Utena never touched Anthy the way she did in the film?!?!?!?! Why Anthy never teased Utena the way she did in the film?!?!?!?!?!). On the other hand, there are elements in the series I wish are in the movie as well (Where's the million swords of hate???? Where's the infamous naked Anthy?!?!?!?!?!?!). What I meant to say is they compliment each other. It really doesn't matter which one you watch first~

P.S. Ha, I think this post reveals the true pervert that exists within me.... emot-rofl

Ya I wonder stuff like that too. Although Anthy was naked in the movie. She ended up naked during the nude drawing scene and the naked-lesbian-make-out-street-luge scene at the end.

Though there is one thing I wonder. Why did Utena and Anthy never kiss in the TV series. My first run through the series I spent wondering when they were going to kiss and was disappointed at the end when they didn't. Then I watched the movie and was happy.

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#23 | Back to Top04-13-2009 03:42:07 PM

Itsuke
Pathtracer
Registered: 12-08-2008
Posts: 341

Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

The_A_Man: Thank you for reminding me! I almost forgot Movie Anthy also had some naked scenes. You see, it's not a good thing to stay awake for 28 hours......hahahahahahaa....

Totally understand your disappointment with the TV series, because I was waiting for the exact same thing (and even more) while watching. I was very very very unhappy after going through all 39 episodes and saw nothing more than Anthy and Utena holding hands. The show has the guts to talk about incest (more than one pair at that). The show gives us couples of scene between Akio and Anthy, one extremely long one with Utena and Akio (the only part where I can bare to rewatch again), but it just won't give me a scene between Anthy and Utena. NOT FAIR!! emot-mad


so...coming back on track....this is what you will get when you watch the movie before the TV series. You will expect a lot from the TV series but be utterly disappointed in the end.

Last edited by Itsuke (04-13-2009 03:46:04 PM)

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#24 | Back to Top04-13-2009 04:07:33 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Itsuke wrote:

so...coming back on track....this is what you will get when you watch the movie before the TV series. You will expect a lot from the TV series but be utterly disappointed in the end.

Well, that's what you got.  I saw the movie before the series too, but the series did not disappoint me one bit.  Then again, Utena and Anthy being a canon couple was not one of my expectations going in, either.

It depends on the person whether or not seeing the movie first is a positive or a negative, or it may break even.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (04-13-2009 04:08:18 PM)


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#25 | Back to Top04-13-2009 04:15:21 PM

The_A_Man
Someday Shiner
From: Canada
Registered: 02-22-2009
Posts: 9107
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Re: Watching the movie before the series.. good idea/bad idea?

Well I'll just say if you're a hardcore yuri fan, the TV series will end up disappointing you whether or not you watch the movie first.

Other then that, I see no reason why you can't watch the movie first. It depends on the person.

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