satyreyes wrote:

Or Ikuni could just have thought Indians are hot.  He's like that.  You never know with him.

I honestly think this is the reason. Have you ever seen Indian people? They're spellbinding, and when you add that to Akio or Anthy's outer personalities it only makes them more desirable. Akio's powerful and confident. Anthy's cute and docile. It's icing on the cake.

I think its just because of the "exotic/hot factor."

The only time India is ever directly mentioned in Utena is when Nanami and her henchwomen have to go to the hundredfold spice to reverse the body-swapping curry.

Sven wrote:

I always thought of them as Indian, yes, but I never thought of the world being set in Japan.

I think it's supposed to be an alternate universe or world, not necessarily earth. Just because it's in Japanese doesn't mean it takes places in Japannnnnn. I've always thought of it as another world entirely! Or at least some kind of... dimensional shift on earth where time gets all effed up LMAO!

I dunno! But I always thought they were Indian, though I never asked why.... They just... are?

I never was sold on the idea that Ohtori was set in Japan, myself.  On an allegorical context, I would say Ohtori exists in a world outside of the 'real world,' at least in the anime and movie.  However, it is mentioned in the manga something about Amsterdam which Utena opts out to moving to.  I think Ohtori is meant to be in the real world, whether it is in Europe or Japan or wherever, but there is essentially something so removed about the school, at the same time, as if i'ts a hole in the fabric of existence and reality. 

But Indian does seem the best bet. 

I also have a speculation that I think is totally non-canon (maybe) of an Indian allegorical connection with Buddhist philosophy and history, if we are to look at points of the series that mirrors the Siddhartha (who was born in India and much of his history takes place there) account (perhaps Hesse's most read book, as well), and knowing his enlightenment was largely a part of him breaking away from the Hindu religion and practices of the Brahmans (with its many dieties and imposed rules interfering with spiritual liberation).  And FTR, some fans do make a connection to Utena and Siddhartha and I make a connection to Anthy and the Four Sights (of suffering).

I dunno, but the idea came to mind when reading The Gospel of Buddha and it suddenly came back again.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Last edited by spoon-san (02-07-2010 04:33:19 PM)

Spoon-san

I never was sold on the idea that Ohtori was set in Japan, myself.  On an allegorical context, I would say Ohtori exists in a world outside of the 'real world,' at least in the anime and movie.  However, it is mentioned in the manga something about Amsterdam which Utena opts out to moving to.  I think Ohtori is meant to be in the real world, whether it is in Europe or Japan or wherever, but there is essentially something so removed about the school, at the same time, as if i'ts a hole in the fabric of existence and reality.

Yes, I definitely feel that way as well. If it is on earth, if feel that the area is a sort of 'pocket' where time, space, and reality become mixed. Though that is strictly based of my perception of the theme's and art style of the series...

And FTR, some fans do make a connection to Utena and Siddhartha and I make a connection to Anthy and the Four Sights (of suffering).

I never noticed that myself, but I hadn't yet read Siddhartha when I originally watched the anime! But I'll surely be doing some wiki-whoring tonight!

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

;D
Thanks!


Satyreyes

Hi, Sven!  :)  The series is almost certainly set in Japan.  We see a couple landmarks in the background, I believe, and Kanae's Mikage Seminar application identifies her address as Japan's Kanagawa Prefecture.  But you're right that this is something that we take for granted a lot in talking about SKU.

Hello! :D
I can see that being true. I just see the setting as being too strange to be truly located in any one place haha! If anything I would say its a place where the world... collides? So then there would be a little bit of everything. Japan and otherwise! Haha, definitely just my speculation though! Nothing canon about it.

So I'm back to it being a cosmetic decision to set these characters apart from the rest of the cast and give them a little unearned mystique.

That makes the most sense to me. It does set them apart from the rest of the cast.
And I don't remember if this had anything to do with Anthy, but wasn't there an episode involving some really spicy curry? Or maybe that was Nanami sabotaging someone... lol

Last edited by Sven (02-07-2010 04:58:15 PM)

satyreyes wrote:

Akio does not field a single tech support phone call.)

Akio might not as a side-job, but Anthy...




Not a slight to Indian citizens.  I'm acquainted with a few who are very nice people.  And I don't think any work at tech support.  And I'm not so clueless to think all who are tech support personnel are Indian (though with job out-sourcing...heh...I love the economy).  So don't take it wrong (why do I always make disclaimers, especially when people make jokes at my expense  that I could find offensive and I roll with it cuz I don't care and because I believe in freedom of expression?  Sorry, I ramble too much XP)

But yeah, I don't think the ethnicity is meant to be anything big or deep, but speculating is still part of the fun.

Last edited by spoon-san (02-07-2010 08:48:14 PM)

Sven wrote:

Anthy does not perform any spontaneous song or dance numbers, at least not in the series,and give them a little unearned mystique.

I would loooove it if Anthy did a bollywood styled dance/musical in the RGU anime. that would be soooo awesome I love bollywood xD

minervana wrote:

Part of it might be stereotypes about dark skinned people. I remember reading an essay where the writer described how, in almost every romantic comedy or love story you'll see on film, the male actor is darker-skinned than the female one. Part of this is nature (women have naturally lighter skin) but part of it is that women are more attracted to dark skin than men, hence "the fairer sex" and "tall, dark and handsome." Or something to that effect. That's sort of a nice underlining of the double standard: while Akio's skin makes him sexy, Anthy's makes her "different."

Tangential, but: if you watch Hindi films (and probably Indian films in general, although I'm less acquainted with the other Indian film industries), this is really blatant.  Having darker skin is still strongly associated with poverty and the lower-classes in India.  This is also true for many as East Asian countries, but since the issue of the caste system is still an issue in present-day India, they have particularly clear lines between classes.  Almost all of the actors in the Hindi film industry are very pale, but this is especially true for women: you may see a mainstream hero (male) with medium-toned skin, but I've never seen a mainstream heroine who's not fair-skinned. 

(Not saying it doesn't exist, as I'm not a Bollywood expert and am not in a position to make authoritative statements, but it would be extremely rare.)

spoon-san wrote:

I never was sold on the idea that Ohtori was set in Japan, myself.  On an allegorical context, I would say Ohtori exists in a world outside of the 'real world,' at least in the anime and movie.  However, it is mentioned in the manga something about Amsterdam which Utena opts out to moving to.  I think Ohtori is meant to be in the real world, whether it is in Europe or Japan or wherever, but there is essentially something so removed about the school, at the same time, as if i'ts a hole in the fabric of existence and reality.

I remember reading an old interview with Chiho Saitou (I think it was in Animerica Extra?) where she said that, after being confused and having Ikuhara explain the setting repeatedly, she came to the conclusion that the story was happening "in the character's minds."  So I've always thought that it was happening outside of the 'real world,' as well.  As satyreyes said, there are some Japanese landmarks and such, but if it was a "mental landscape" created by Japanese people (Ikuhara/Be-Papas or the actual characters in Utena, take your pick) then it would make sense to have landmarks that they'd be familiar with.  For example, we've all walked around our house or our old school in dreams.

spoon-san wrote:

Really?  If you don't mind, I'd like to quote you in a new thread to explore this idea further.

Oh, feel free.  I wish I could give you better info, as my citation is pretty vague, but here's what I know: this issue was probably circa 2000-2003, and I'm almost positive it was in the issue where the first (English) chapter of the SKU manga was published.

I'll go look for the issue, but I'm not sure where it would be (if I still have it at all).

EDIT: Found, scanned.

Including Indian and Hindu culture associated with caste hierarchy where you have the Brahman on top and Untouchables at rock bottom would mesh well with the aristocratic structure of Ohtori (Student Council at the top and then everyone else...and a part of me sees Anthy as an Untouchable while somehow being at the top in the way she is treated and is seen which causes her to play into such roles)...the notion of having these rigid rules (which could be considered silly, at least from an outsider POV) which automatically places individuals into these distinctions and roles and having someone like Utena to liberate others stuck in this prison of a system through her counter ideals

I agree.  I think that could also parallel commentary on traditional "women's roles" as portrayed in SKU.

Last edited by Alexa (02-15-2010 12:27:49 PM)

Aine Silveria wrote:

Lightice wrote:

not to derail the thread, but Integra is, in both manga and anime, very very British. And not at all Indian.

Actually her mother was Indian, if I remember correctly. Remember that India used to be a British Colonial Territory. She has duskier skin than the rest of the cast because of this.

.... wait, what? Hellsing trivia I don't know? Can you point me to this?

Granted, I don't believe that her 'duskier skin', if that's even the case (which I don't know for sure because I don't have immediate access to the manga or DVD's and I don't want to go searching right now), means much of anything.

There's a single frame in the TV series with an Indian woman- can't see her face, but she's dark-skinned and wearing a sari- holding a baby with Integra's trademark cowlick in the centre of her forehead. She's usually assumed to be Integra's mother. This is seen in the flashback to Integra's father kicking the bucket right in front of her. There's utterly no mention or reference as to Integra's mother, anywhere else in the TV series and certainly not in the manga. The first couple of OVA definitely don't have any clues either, but it's possible that there's something in the later OVAs. I haven't seen those. Basically, it's as though Arthur is a friggin' hermaphrodite and made her all by his/herself.







As far as Akio and Anthy are concerned, I'm inclined to go with 'rule of exotic' myself. At least in Saito's manga, that is. It's strongly European, to the point where it feels like you're being hit over the head with the Collected Stories of the Brothers Grimm By the final volume. There are definite Hindu themes in the anime, but provided Saito did indeed do the initial character designs, I think they would have been incorporated later.

Last edited by crystalwren (08-21-2012 10:09:40 PM)

Akio/Anthy looking Indian gave significant visual clues to Mikage's "Mamiya" being fake, so that's part of the look's purpose too.

Aelanie wrote:

KI: Cool, yes. I just did it because I thought it'd be cool.

. . .

There's no big deep meaning behind it. Ikuhara is always looking for ways to make his visuals more interesting, more unique. There was a character design he liked and so he used it.

Well, sure, of course he did it because he thought it would be cool.  That's presumably also why he gave Utena a boy's uniform.  But what a different story SKU might be if Anthy had the boy's uniform and Utena had the Indian skin tone.  I think the commenters in this thread are taking it as a given that the skin tone looks cool to Ikuni, and trying to figure out why Ikuni chose to assign that particular cool look to Anthy.  At least, that's what I was doing.

Really people, you are the elite among Utena fans. You should know those commentaries back to front. Do your research.

Wait, who claimed to be the elite among Utena fans?  Certainly not me.  I'm always learning new things about the show and its creators -- usually from people like you who know something I don't.  In general they communicate it in a less condescending way, though. 

Last edited by satyreyes (09-01-2012 01:48:32 AM)

Hmm.  I can see how it would be respectful to expect that others will know a lot about the show.  But it doesn't seem very respectful to chastise them when they don't.  It's a big crowd here.  Some of us have watched the series and commentaries obsessively and read every scrap of information about Be-PaPas we can.  Others haven't even finished watching the show yet.  IRG doesn't have an entrance exam, and that's the way we like it.  Most of us are happy to be educated, but we'd prefer that it be done in a way that doesn't treat us like we're disappointments for not knowing all along.   That's your chance to say "oh hey guys, you know what Ikuhara said on the commentary?", not "how are you elite Utena fans so ignorant ".

Hmm, well, I like watching commentaries, but I haven't had the chance to watch SKU's commentary. (It would probably help if I actually owned the series.) :x