Holy cow.  First and foremost, how have I missed this thread all this time?  Second... wow, great script.  And so different from the movie in its final form!

I wish the movie had kept Enokido's ideas about Utena and Anthy's empowerment in the last couple of chapters.  The scene where Anthy shows Utena the castle -- "it's said that if you go there, you can obtain anything" -- followed, chronologically, by Utena putting her ring back on and dueling Juri -- makes Utena's journey to her own liberation more poignant than in the final draft, where it's not clear that Utena had any idea what the duels were.  Very cool.  Even more importantly, the image of Utena ultimately handing the Rose Seal to Anthy -- what a powerful gesture! -- and for Anthy, during the escape, to take on the uniform of a duelist, and to draw the Sword of Dios from her own body -- perfect, perfect, how did they take this out?  Enokido is a fucking genius.

At the same time, I think I'm just as happy that we lost Enokido's ending.  Aelanie wisely pointed out earlier that the script seems to be shipping Utena/Touga harder than Utena/Anthy, and this fourth part takes that to its logical conclusion.  Touga seems to stand for something completely different in the script than he does in the movie, which explains a lot about how nonsensical parts of the movie were.  Even E-ko and F-ko make more sense if you know that Enokido imagined them as stand-ins for Utena and Touga -- no wonder they end up as discarded straw men at the end.  But I dislike how hard Utena is trying to hold onto Touga in the script.  I thought the movie struck the right balance; it showed how she was hung up on him, but she let him go in the elevator and we never heard from him again.  Certainly he didn't need to come save her during the car chase, by which point Utena has left the past behind her.  And if we want to show Utena as a newly independent woman who's moving into a potentially cold reality with only her friends for comfort, the movie, not this script, strikes the right final note.  (Surely the last thing we need to do is end the movie on her looking backward!)  I think the change in emphasis from Touga to Anthy makes Utena a stronger character.  It's too bad that it deprived us of Enokido's delightful version of the Shiori car.

Dallbun, thanks so much for your translation.  I understand much better now why the movie is the charismatic freak that it is, and I love it more for it.

On the other hand, I want Juri's moment of crowning bad-assitude that got removed from the final version!

Dallbun wrote:

Ashnod wrote:

On the other hand, I want Juri's moment of crowning bad-assitude that got removed from the final version!

I don't know, I think Miki comes off as even more badass than Juri there. Using the stopwatch to keep track of when the explosives he wired up will go off? Brilliant.

True. That scene feels far more focused on Miki and his epic thinking skills. Neither the final movie nor the series have any moments like that, and being shown a "what could have been" makes me kind of depressed that Miki never really got much of a chance to demonstrate onscreen how epic people of his intelligence level can be.

Also, thanks for pointing out the bit about the Kozue-Mobile. I might not have caught that on my own, as I forgot I even made that comment XD

The Beelzebub/cars of hate motif is interesting when they're all anonymous like the swords from the series, but I would actually have liked to see "Kozue" in action, and for there to be intelligible names on more of the license plates, perhaps even using it as a way to "include" more of the characters from the series that weren't in the movie (or make references to other works ) The nameless cars just pale in comparison to hammering home the chilling recognition that each and every one of them was an individual person in the past, especially if more of the names were recognizable than just the latest additions to the group.

But then, that's just me. I would like it if Utena played with more blatantly disturbing themes like that, but then I'm the kind of guy who might as well be ing to Hellsing or Berserk.

Last edited by Chrome Homura (04-05-2011 03:17:08 AM)

Riri's Idol wrote:

Anthy stands up in the driver's seat, and draws a sword from her own chest.



(Juri and Miki perform a maneuver out of a ridiculous action movie and blow up the devil cars in a massive, rose-shaped explosion)

SQUEE!! Mister Enokido never fails to amaze me. I would have loved to see all of that in the final act. They must have cut it out due to budget constraints.

Dallbun wrote:

Riri-kins wrote:

SQUEE!! Mister Enokido never fails to amaze me. I would have loved to see all of that in the final act. They must have cut it out due to budget constraints.

Perhaps to make room for the Nanami Cow video.

I noticed this too.  I thought it was pretty hilarious that they dropped masked students, Anthy-as-duelist, and Beelzebub-the-car in order to make room for a video about how Nanami is still ridiculous. 

Is this thing real? Because you seriously could have written it yourself.

Overlord Morgus wrote:

Is this thing real? Because you seriously could have written it yourself.

Wow. Admittedly, it would have been quite a prank to take the first three thirds of the movie and change a couple things around, add a bit of material from the manga, create my own little translation notes, deliberately write in slightly stilted grammar to emulate the fact that I'm not that great a translator, throw in a fake intro by "Enokido" for good measure, and then go completely off the rails in the last section once I'd established my credibility.

What I actually did, though, is translate the Adolescence Apocalypse Scenario Book for benefit of the Utena fan community.

teyhy wrote:

I still don't understand how they went from sexy Akio on top of the castle to the evil twin Akio rolling over cars and drudging Anthy.

Eh, I dunno. This Akio is hardly different from the final draft Akio - he's just spared the extra indignity of the "where are the keys" scene, and gets to have his shirt open. He doesn't have the conversation with Anthy at the end, either. I don't particularly prefer one over the other.

Also, students turning into cars then into flies should have made it to the screen. Not only it would had given the movie a sense of danger but it would also explained a lot.

The students didn't turn into cars in this draft - the Beelzebuls seemed to be pretty separate entities from the students. In fact, the final version of the movie is the one that implies that each of the dark cars were once people, because of the shot of the "Kozue" license plate in the underground parking area.

I agree, though - I really like the scene, and I think it does raise the stakes and make things seem more dangerous. The car wash is just so... out of the blue, in comparison.

Last edited by Dallbun (04-06-2011 07:08:14 PM)

Overlord Morgus wrote:

Wasn't that serious of a question, definitely not an accusation, chill out. But seriously, holy shit @ all of this.

No worries, it didn't seem too serious. But it was rather out of left field, is all.

Anyway, glad you enjoyed it!

Aelanie wrote:

In short, thank goodness for Ikuhara.

I think you do Enokido a disservice in characterizing the relative Touga-centricness of this draft as a blunder of his that Ikuhara had to step in and fix. This was merely the fourth draft of the script - one in a long series of drafts, in other words. Enokido presumably continued to work on it as head scriptwriter until it was finalized. Of course, Ikuhara was surely involved in the revisions, too... Enokido's introduction seems to indicate that all of Be-Papas very actively discussed the shape of the movie... but to my knowledge, Enokido is the guy who ultimately crossed out Touga's post-farewell appearances, and wrote the final kiss scene that you admire.

Last edited by Dallbun (04-07-2011 12:32:26 AM)

Dallbun wrote:

I think you do Enokido a disservice in characterizing the relative Touga-centricness of this draft as a blunder of his that Ikuhara had to step in and fix. This was merely the fourth draft of the script - one in a long series of drafts, in other words. Enokido presumably continued to work on it as head scriptwriter until it was finalized. Of course, Ikuhara was surely involved in the revisions, too... Enokido's introduction seems to indicate that all of Be-Papas very actively discussed the shape of the movie... but to my knowledge, Enokido is the guy who ultimately crossed out Touga's post-farewell appearances, and wrote the final kiss scene that you admire.

Trust me, I'm not downplaying Enokido's work or contributions. There would be no Utena without him, and no higher praise than that could be given to anyone. I am indebted to all of Be-Papas - even Saito Chiho, I guess...

In reading this draft however, it does seem to me that Enokido's ideas were tending in another direction, and that Ikuhara was the one pushing most strongly for more Utena/Anthy. I'm not saying Enokido was at all against it (clearly not, given the ultimate outcome), simply that he may have had other plans.

As Ikuhara himself indicates in the movie commentary, the staff were of many minds regarding how (and to what degree) that element should feature in the movie, and I think I won't be argued against if I say that Ikuhara was most probably at the forefront of the pro-Utena/Anthy faction.

Last edited by Aelanie (04-07-2011 08:51:31 PM)

Aelanie wrote:

In reading this draft however, it does seem to me that Enokido's ideas were tending in another direction, and that Ikuhara was the one pushing most strongly for more Utena/Anthy. I'm not saying Enokido was at all against it (clearly not, given the ultimate outcome), simply that he may have had other plans.

Definitely possible, but I don't think we have enough information to sort out Enokido's original intentions or preferences about, say, Touga's role. This draft didn't come straight out of his head - it was the fourth draft in a script whose themes were already a matter of heavy group discussion. Not to mention that the changes we're discussing are in the last act, which, between this draft, the final script, and the movie manga, clearly went through the most big changes. All we know is that this draft plays up Touga in the latter parts, compared to the end product.

But anyway, I'm just being super-picky. Definitely everyone involved deserves credit, for how much turned out well in the end.

As Ikuhara himself indicates in the movie commentary, the staff were of many minds regarding how (and to what degree) that element should feature in the movie, and I think I won't be argued against if I say that Ikuhara was most probably at the forefront of the pro-Utena/Anthy faction.

...yeah, that's certainly fair enough! Certainly, we should thank Ikuhara for the pro-Utena/Anthy influence that he undoubtedly brought to bear! ...and, you know, for directing the thing.

Last edited by Dallbun (04-07-2011 11:16:13 PM)

Based on the greater emphasis on Touga in this draft, I'd say that the 'Touga is dead' thing was actually developed later on, and was hastily added to this draft without being given a proper runthrough. If he's not dead, then his relationship with Utena is totally different, and it makes his appearance in the finale less jarring.