YOU IDIOT. Don't post awesome Touga analysis when Yasha's not able to get to the forum for a while.

Anyway you are not incorrect, in fact I agree on all counts and I've also always found it interesting that Touga's so flirtatious with Saionji but sexually shuts down with Nanami when the goals, presumably, were the other way around. I think in Nanami's case, though, there are a couple possibilities that aren't exclusive of each other. He could be covering up the mack because Nanami would have sniffed it out too soon and rejected him before he could get in that one overwhelming act. She might have brushed off flirtatious better. The other possibility is he genuinely doesn't want to seduce Nanami, and I really don't think he does. He's pretty mean and a nasty fellow, but fucking his sister I think would be more than he'd do without it leaving a bad taste in his mouth (haha). That and...he's supposed to fail. If Nanami gave in, Akio would ride off into the sunset with two siblings banging like monkeys in the back of his car, but that's not the goal here, is it? In this way it mirrors what Akio does to Utena later. Dangling a prize in front of her that she's supposed to reject as part of the plan.

As for Saionji, I think he's playing to the crowd that knows him best. Sexuality is a very, very potent metaphor for power in Saionji's eyes. He's watched Touga wrap half the school (the female half) around his little finger, and he's watched Touga fuck his way into the second most powerful position in the school. That Touga's sexually powerful is hard to deny, and even more so than anything else, Touga thoroughly outshines him in that arena. Saionji has (that he's aware of) not a scrap of sexual power, so for Touga to flaunt it that way really rubs in the relative difference in status and power here, especially as it pertains to Saionji's not being in the game anymore. (Hence the signet flashing, which is something Saionji himself was quite guilty of in the first arc.)

You could argue he should feel worse for fucking so deeply with his sister, but I think the difference in comfort level is more sexist than that. Saionji's a man. He should be able to handle himself better than a younger woman. I think on some level Touga does think women should be protected, but it's not because he's a really great guy. It's became women are weaker. He can sleep a little better fucking with a man that should be able to defend himself.

I always thought that, more than Saionji's duel, Nanami's also had a different tone with Akio and Touga. I can't say why exactly, but I smell 'prove it' in what Touga's made to do here. I don't think being a shit to Saionji is anything new, and he's never been brother of the year to Nanami, but this is especially rotten. Maybe, for anyone else, too much. It wasn't, though.

Mwahaha! Out of pure spite, I'm going to put in more Touga analysis here. Gee. For him being my least favorite character, I've done quite a bit of research. Or maybe I'm just inspired by what was brought by the car scene between Touga and Nanami, which I feel is a particularly interesting little dynamic. Now, it's not in the Gallery screen caps, and it's pretty much incredibly hard to see. But if you look very very carefully and do enough freeze-framing...Touga is smiling as he advances in on Nanami. You can only see it for a second before his hair is blown in the way. But...here it is.



I apologize for the poor quality, as my Utena DVDs are misplaced and I had to use YouTube. But you can still see Touga's little smile there. What does it imply? I think that there's a very certain predatory quality to what he's doing. He's conflicted, I would agree, but he's spent a bit of time leading up to this moment. The previous two episodes are filled with his gradual seduction that comes off as teasing, but distinctly sexual. For once, we really see Touga in a sort of subtle pursuit of his sister. His attentions are focused completely on her. He seduces one of her lackeys with the clear intent of reaching Nanami. Notice how his smile when holding Keiko here is almost identical to when he's about to kiss Nanami:



It's an interesting symbol as well. The air is concealing most of the face. The only thing visible is a small and secretive smile. It's a very deliberate image for deception, mystery, and hidden intentions. You could imagine him doing the same thing right after walking from Nanami's room after his rather coy display of concern for her "illness." He's planning something, and all of his moves are focused on his sister.

What I personally deduct from this is simple - Touga has made a mistake. He misleadingly thought that Nanami's adoration of him was distinctly sexual. And at some more suppressed level, it is. After all, she's often caressing him, taking his arm, draping herself on tables before him, or taking other moves of symbolic submission. Someone with Touga's ego and way of perceiving things would take as a reflection of her sexual desire for me, and her acceptance of his dominant position. Early in the series, we see him acting in turn. This is especially obvious in "Curry High Trip," in which Nanami begs him for his forgiveness. He quite clearly enjoys this, then exerts his power over her by ordering her to India with the threat of not being able to come home. So his perception of their relationship is that he controls Nanami due to his sexual control over her. His ego demands nothing less. Still, he is hesitant to act upon it, but I'll take on that later.

The problem is that he was wrong. Nanami may use sexual gestures and symbols, but given her perpetual clueless innocence, she doesn't understand the deeper significance behind them. She uses them as an expression of a far more familial affection. I do think that Nanami is attracted to Touga, a fact made obvious by her watching him in the shower, but it's not something she would ever willfully act on. In the moments that Nanami's actual sexual self emerges, it displays someone with even more innocence and naivete than Utena. She becomes passive, shy, and is generally blushing. Therefore, her more aggressive displays are not intended to be advances on her brother.

Where do they come from? I theorize from her own living situation. Touga and Nanami grew up in an aristocratic family. They probably did not see their parents very often, but what they did see probably left a lasting impression. My personal deduction is that Touga took a lot of cues from his adoptive father. Given from what we know of him, from what we see of the mansion, and from the freedom left to the children, we can perhaps paint a picture of what the parents were like. My image of his father is a man who distinctly enjoys power - probably a businessman of some variety. He probably had a younger trophy wife. In a lot of regards, I see him being a lot like Akio in that he is probably the epitome of the adult image in the Utena world. His detached presence left a lasting impression on his young adopted son, who quickly was lavished with attention. On a brief side note, I'd like to point out that Touga did not live in his comfort forever. He probably came from a poor family prior to being adopted by the Kiryuus, since he was apparently old enough at the time to remember it. So he has the contrast to remember suffering before pleasure. It makes him appreciate the luxury and attentions of the royalty even more, and I see his adoptive father as being a symbol of all he reaches to attain.

Nanami, conversely, acts out the part associated with a trophy pet. She clings onto Touga, constantly begging him and showing her submissive adoration. Perhaps she saw similar acts from her adoptive mother. Or, it could be the image associated with the rich man's pretty young wife that would pervade the upper ranks and her way of living. I'd say a combination of both. But she doesn't entirely understand what her gestures mean. She grew up seeing it, and perceived it to be the way that girls showed affection for the men they idolized. Naturally, for her, that would be her brother. She's clueless enough not to see the way the rest of the campus perceives it. To her, it's her means of displaying a purely sisterly form of love. Touga, in turn, acts out more the part of the indulgent yet occasionally stern husband rather than the older brother. Together, they probably imitate the roles they saw their parents play, and most of the couples that they were exposed to as a youth.

Examples of Nanami's "trophy wife" behaviors:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/ … 08_064.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e320/ … 06_019.jpg

Touga is content to play this part with more symbolism than actuality for the first part of the series. He doesn't take advantage of Nanami's desire to please him, and in his own twisted way, treats her as his little sister. Then comes Akio. Akio, who represents everything he wants to be. Akio, who has absolutely no reservations about who he seduces. Who ensures his control over the power of Dios through his sexual power - including over his own sibling. Touga admires his ability, and his ruthlessness. He wants very much to believe he can be the exact same way. What he doesn't count on is his own feeling. I believe that we see in "Her Tragedy" and "Romance of the Dancing Girls" is the progression of his conflict. On one hand, he does genuinely care for her. Right after Keiko slaps her, he does not look too happy, tells her that she'll understand eventually. An ambiguous and lackluster comfort. But there none of the less. On the other hand, he believes that Akio is testing him, and wants to prove both his ability to both himself and his "friend." His forceful move on his sister is the final culmination of this debate. He's hesitant at first, but then he finally advances. He chooses Akio's favor over his doubts, and when he finally does move in, he's intent on making sure that he enjoys it. My thoughts for his smile? Perhaps relief. Perhaps pleasure at conquering a part of himself he finds disgusting. By having sex with Nanami, she really does become one insect in the mass of many. She's no longer his sister, the one person he draws a line to. She's just another sex object. In that quick easy move, he destroys their connection, and perhaps he manages to conquer whatever affinity he feels for her. Not to mentions so that he proves that he can be on par with Akio's "accomplishments."

When Nanami shoves him away, he sounds angry. Extremely frustrated. He had just finally made the move he's been planning and debating over, and Nanami refuses him. Yet, their eventual apparent reconciliation suggests that perhaps this was a source of relief to him. Without royally screwing over their bond as Anthy and Akio did, they manage to keep it intact. The end of the series suggests that maybe Touga's steady transformation has allowed him to finally be a big brother, rather than a grotesque imitation. Their relationship can slowly turn into a healthier development between two siblings.

Whoo. And there is my long ass observation that goes off in thirty different directions. If this thread has truly been necro'd, would anyone care to take on Akio/Kozue? They're only together for a small bit of one episode, but I've always wondered at what their body language suggests. How would Akio see Kozue? If no one else covers it, I'll give a shot, but mind my observational limitations.

^^^^^^^ Look at the smile! THE SMILE! THE SMILE! I agree with you to some extent...but it's more complex than he "just didn't want to" yep! It reveals a major complex in his character!

*gets dragged by mental health facility workers, chanting "THE SMILE! THE SMILE!" over and over again*

Jellineck wrote:

^ Look at the smile! THE SMILE! THE SMILE! I agree with you to some extent...but it's more complex than he "just didn't want to" yep! It reveals a major complex in his character!

*gets dragged by mental health facility workers, chanting "THE SMILE! THE SMILE!" over and over again*

Utena seems to inspire the mental most of all... myself actually having been in a mental institute.... where I drew Anthy of all things...