Overlord Morgus wrote:

Saturn is Juri because of her pure devotion to physical prowess and lesbianism

In the first place, I'm almost positive you're talking about Jupiter, because none of that matches up. Also not sure where the holy hell you're getting "pure devotion to lesbianism". She's tough, therefore a lesbian? Get back to Gender Theory 101. If you can't grasp that, you won't survive long on this forum.

In the second place, no.

Last edited by Trench Kamen (03-02-2011 12:53:26 AM)

I don't really see the (character) correlation personally but I've done this myself with lots of other series. Also, Ikuhara directed the Sailor Moon film (or at least part of the series? Not quite sure on this) so Utena has some obvious influences from SM and magical girl anime in general, like the replay of transformation sequences (i.e. the sword-summoning ritual) and some of the characterization processes. Not to mention just a nebulous feeling that I saw some of this stuff on SM already

I also haven't actually watched that much of Sailor Moon at this point =_=;

Okay, I was completely wrong about Jupiter.

But the Miki/Mercury resemblance is pretty blatant, especially since they both have number-oriented props that give them information about their environment. Also, blue hair.

And the Akio/Dios and Mamoru/Tuxedo Mask connection is pretty strong, Mamoru's connection to his alter ego was always more tenuous than Usagi's, since he'd often forget his adventures once he went back to being Mamoru.

And Juri and Jupiter are both lovelorn, so that's another connection. Plus, they're both the most physical in their own groups of teenage elites.

Also, I could just reiterate everything from my first post, I mean, I thought I made my point pretty strongly.

Last edited by Overlord Morgus (03-02-2011 03:55:23 PM)

satyreyes wrote:

(She's not the only seiyuu Ikuhara dragged with him from Sailor Moon to Utena, either; would you believe that Juri is voiced by the same woman as Sailor Moon herself?)

I am completely flabbergasted! I had been watching some Japanese Sailor Moon a few months ago (been meaning to do it forever, I grew up loving the show and it's about time I watched it without all the censoring and chopping up episodes) and never for a second would I have thought Juri and Usagi have the same VA...

Calamity wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

(She's not the only seiyuu Ikuhara dragged with him from Sailor Moon to Utena, either; would you believe that Juri is voiced by the same woman as Sailor Moon herself?)

I am completely flabbergasted! I had been watching some Japanese Sailor Moon a few months ago (been meaning to do it forever, I grew up loving the show and it's about time I watched it without all the censoring and chopping up episodes) and never for a second would I have thought Juri and Usagi have the same VA...

Them and everyone else!  Mitsuishi Kotono is in everything.  She was also Excel in Excel Saga, Misato in Evangelion, Kagura in Fruits Basket, and a hundred others.  Juri is against type for her -- I think she's cast more for high-energy roles than for subtle performances -- but she's obviously more than able to turn up the smoldering introversion when the role requires it   Her male converse would probably be Koyasu Takehito, who takes on Touga in Utena.  He does mostly shounen, she does mostly shoujo, and SKU, of course, has a little of both. 

Internally, if Juri is like anyone, it's Haruka.  Or well, Haruka if there were no Michiru that she opened up to.  Juri is the closed locket in a way that no one in SM quite matches.  As for Mamoru, he's a LOT closer to Tatsuya than Akio, but not really all that close to either.  Heck, given how often he's used as the save-me plot device, I'd say he's closer to Anthy than Akio.  There really isn't an Akio character in SM, though it'd have been interesting if there was.  While Mercury and Miki both have a small device, the function is completely disparate.  Mercury uses hers as a tool, Miki's serves no seeming purpose except perhaps as a nervous crutch.

Some of the similarities that are coming out are common magical girl tropes that predate both series.  Sailor Moon just became the series for which they're best known in North America, while Utena goes out of its way to use them while twisting them in its own way. 

A lot of these external, skin-deep similarities are intentional; Utena's effort to take the most common themes of shoujo and turn them on their ears.  Without more than a passing understanding of the characters, though, it's hard to make real comparisons.

Paradox wrote:

Some of the similarities that are coming out are common magical girl tropes that predate both series.  Sailor Moon just became the series for which they're best known in North America, while Utena goes out of its way to use them while twisting them in its own way. 

A lot of these external, skin-deep similarities are intentional; Utena's effort to take the most common themes of shoujo and turn them on their ears.  Without more than a passing understanding of the characters, though, it's hard to make real comparisons.

I agree with this. I think that you can also make these connections with most characters in any sort of story. There are always characters who are stereotypes in any show, and creators frequently reuse concepts and appearances of their characters.
So in that sense, I agree that there are a few parallels to be drawn between the shows, and that it's natural for a director/creator to reuse and reinforce concepts in their other works.

That's the thing, Utena's essentially where all the cute harmless character interactions from Sailor Moon get turned into a living hell.

If we are going to compare SMoon to SKU, can we at least mention the fact that Utena and Anthy were quite directly inspired by Haruka and Michiru?

Here is an extract from an interview with Ikuhara, where he talks about a proposed idea for the SMSS movie (not very well translated, I'm afraid):

"It was going to be a story in which Uranus and Neptune were the main characters. It was going to be a story independant to the TV series and this was going to be the first appearance of Uranus and Neptune. And Sailor Neptune was going to be in a 1000-year sleep at a place called "The End of the World". And Sailor Uranus was needed to steal the talisman from the Sailor Senshi and use that to awaken Sailor Neptune. And Uranus was going to be riding the black pegasus. And the story was going to be that Sailor Moon would ride Pegasus to chase Sailor Uranus riding the Black Pegasus to the "End of the World". And the climax of the story would've been the rodeo scene between Sailor Moon on white Pegasus and Sailor Uranus on Black Pegasus. And so this was kind of story I had in mind. But before production began, the producer walked off Sailor Moon. It would've been possible for me to make the story still, but since I came up with the story with the producer, I also walked off. But I had an attraction to the idea of "The End of the World" which I thought up for this plot. So the same thing in Utena comes from the Sailor Moon plot."
http://www.wikimoon.org/index.php?title … Girl_Utena

So if that movie had been made, would we not have had SKU at all?

Here are all the voice actors...
Juri - Usagi
Miki - Ami
Mikage - Fiore (this one made me laugh)
Kozue - Tellu
Anthy - Cyprine
Shiori - Diana...

As well as this, I can't help thinking of Sailor Saturn and her destructive/revolutionizing power in relation to Utena; and her reserved character reminds me of Anthy. How would she interact with Akio?

Are you saying that TV Tokyo essentially censored its own shows?

That's the best explanation for the decline of anime I've ever heard. I mean, it's anime. It HAS to have blood and death and depression in it.

Now that I think of it, blood and sacrifice probably IS the missing ingredient. Look at Macross Plus, the best Macross offering of all time, and it features hatred and despair and a man forcing his hands into his abdomen while his eyes explode. Then compare it to Macross Frontier, or the new Gundam shows, where none of the main cast ever die. Or look at how the best Cowboy Bebop episodes by far are the ones involving Spike's conflict with Vicious, or Faye's futile, heartbreaking attempts to recapture her lost past.

Or Steamboy vs Akira. Or Sky Crawlers vs the old Ghost in the Shell movie. Or the Kenshin OVA vs the TV series. When you look at two offerings from the same franchise/creator, this all becomes so obvious.

That's what hand-drawn cells have that cgi lacks: entropy. Without entropy, there is no arrow of time, no tragedy. Any destruction or disruption can be ctrl-z'd out of existence.

Oh, and Madoka Magica, the only really best-selling anime of recent memory. Giant franchise, massive angst and depression and blood.

Last edited by zevrem (11-16-2013 08:43:26 AM)