I think you hit it when you mentioned Akio's goals. Because for him, that's all there is anymore. As Dios, he expended Herculean effort to save the girls of the world, and in the end, it was for nothing. No matter how hard he tried, there were still girls who needed saving, and all of his efforts had only made them dependent on him. I would say that Akio lost his faith in the inherent morality of action, and dedicated himself wholly to results. In his own mind, what he's doing and the way he treats people probably make perfect sense. He's chosen his goal and he's doing whatever it takes to achieve it. From that perspective, doing things in any other way seems like naivete, and even self-indulgence. After all, Utena is getting something out of her "helping" Anthy. Naji's jibe about community service hours was a nice barb, because early on in the show, Utena basically is thinking that way.

Utena on the other hand, is trying to do the "right" thing, and ultimately disregards the consequences of her actions. Because it is the means that give validity to the ends, rather than the ends justifying the means. If what she does is inherently right, it doesn't matter what bad things may happen as a result (getting stabbed say), because she behaved correctly. To her, Akio seems self-centered and calculating, because he doesn't even think that the ideals she's struggling for exist, so how could he acknowledge their validity.

Add to this that Akio has already done that. He tried it Utena's way, and he "knows" it doesn't work. So it's kind of natural that he would condescend when speaking to her.

*claps hands excitedly at conversation on Akio's "why"*

For me Akio and Dios are hopelessly entwined in a love/hate relationship, which manifests itself as Akio's driving motivation. Here's my logic:
Dios (name related to "God") as the archetypal "Prince" was a symbol of all that is saving and good.
Akio (name related to Venus/refers to himself as Morning Star/aka Lucifer ie the devil).
[Note: I realize Lucifer may or may not be Satan from strictly bible references...there's not a lot of info about Satan actually in the bible. But Lucifer is popularly considered to be Satan and the anime/manga run with that interpretation]

Dios died and Akio was born out of one crushing realization. That which the Prince wanted to do (save all the girls in the world from peril), he was struggling to do (had more compassion than he did strength), and in the end couldn't do (courtesy of Anthy's martyrdom on his behalf).
I repeat, Dios couldn't do that which he most longed to do.
So he died, and Akio rose from his ashes (although as we see in the anime interpretation, Dios lingers as a ghost, and is still princely and acting to support nobility. So there is something about Dios that is stronger than death, or some part of Akio is holding onto Dios...).
Now imnsho, there is none so evil as one who was once good, and who therefore in a deep down hidden place longs to be good.
Or at least remembers what it was like to be good...and sometimes misses it. Enter Akio.

Poor poor Akio. How bitter and aching he must have originally been to have undergone such a transformation. Having failed in his purpose for living, Akio becomes the best at the opposite purpose. Rather than being good and saving the girls of the world, he is now evil and corrupts/damns the boys/girls of the world instead. But although he embraces the "pleasures of sin" as it were (read he has himself a whole lotta sex), and has become the very monster that he once saved princesses from, he still can't find fulfillment. He's fallen (like the morning star from heaven), and lost his true way.

I think this can be seen in his visit to the grave of Dios, and his perpetual and unending desire to reclaim the "power of Dios" (ie castle of eternity) for himself. He is missing that which he used to have when he was Dios. He doesn't realize that exactly, but he craves what he perceives to be the power. What he doesn't recognize is that the only way to open the rose gate/enter the castle/be possessed by Dios is to enter into becoming or being Dios. Akio would have to become Dios again to regain Dios' power; he would have to regain his lost nobility. He would have to use his power to save and protect instead of to please himself. He would have to "hate lies" and tell the truth, rather than drip with lies toward his own gain. Not gonna happen...

So I think Akio has an external motivation (known to himself) fighting against an internal motivation (that he is blind to).
As the anti-prince or villain of the piece, he wants to un-save or corrupt young "innocents". That is he wants to stop them growing up and stepping out into responsible freedom, and he does this by exploiting their childish weaknesses and foibles.
As the ex-prince who longs for what he once had, he needs the power of Dios (but he doesn't know that he misses being Dios and this is part of what drives him). So he corrupts the "innocents" around him in order to use them to try and get it for him. Meanwhile the ghost of Dios (still a part of Akio) acts to resurrect nobility in the case of Utena...

Where does Anthy fit into this? Well without going into too much detail, and sticking to what reflects on Akio, he has two motivations toward her as well.
As the anti-prince he wants to corrupt her (and has), by playing on her love for her brother in their childhood and by exploiting her submission and the "sword situation".
As the ex-prince who longs for what he once had, he needs Anthy. She took the power from Dios...logically she must be involved in getting it back. So he uses her/solicits her support in the dueling game.
Also he hates her on some level for taking him away from Dios.
Also he loves her on some level for freeing him from the bondage of Dios' responsibility.
Also he doesn't care about her, because he only cares about himself: after all he used to care about everybody and it literally destroyed him.

So to summarize and synthesize:

rhy wrote:regarding Akio's character, specifically... Why is he the way he is?  What are his personal goals?  What is his personal view of "how the world works" and why did he come to that conclusion?

Akio is this way because he's fallen from being Dios.

His personal goals are to be the opposite to Dios, and also to regain Dios (although he doesn't realize this clearly).

His personal view of the way the world works is that it must undergo a revolution (he hopes this can happen by subterfuge and manipulation, and persists in the dueling game). Although he rules the world he has created (Ohtori), he hasn't found complete fulfillment. The world needs to change. Akio thinks it will if he regains the power of Dios (which he imagines will give him even more selfish gratification which will fill his lingering emptiness. But it won't. He needs Dios himself). Unfortunately the power of Dios is out of Akio's reach since he has lost his nobility.

He came to the conclusion of revolution because it is his nature to want more. He wants to shine (more darkly!). He wants the most power. He wants to be complete without Dios and wants Anthy to exist completely for him.

All in all I find Akio to be a very tragic figure. Evil sure...but tragic. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

I used "sincerity" because it's the Utena Translation Project's pick--and I have tended to trust their choices.

I believe that the CPM subtitles use "persistence" -- which has made the quote easier to understand.

I think the definition of "sincere, honest, faithful, having integrity" fits my thoughts in my first post...

I'm writing a response it's just gotten long and I haven't finished....

hollow_rose wrote:

sharnii wrote:

All in all I find Akio to be a very tragic figure. Evil sure...but tragic. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like this. I always feel bad for him the last ep when Anthy abandons him. He's stuck in his role, much more than any of the duelists, or, as it turns out, even Anthy. Whether he's the shadow of a prince or a fallen angel-type devil, he still is condemned to play this role. Apparently he is the only one who can't escape.

Sorry but I disagree a bit.  I have never felt that Akio is 'condemned', so to speak, by anything other than himself.  It would be one thing if he simply stopped going out of his way to help others and played the forgotten prince who sits around doing nothing and wasting his potential, but instead he goes beyond that line and actively uses what he does have left at his disposal to use and hurt others so that he can achieve his own ends.

You have to save yourself.  Others can help you, but in the end, there is always a measure of personal responsibility that everyone needs to take in order to grow up.

Anthy doesn't say that he is destined to remain this way, only that he "can stay here in his cozy little coffin."  Akio's past and lost power are part of the reason why he is who he is, but they are not an unstoppable force keeping him ignorant and hopeless.  Just like everyone else in the series, Akio can save himself, though unlike the rest, he is simply less inclined to ditch his role because it's a tad more fun than playing a rose bride.

Anthy leaving may change how comfortable he is with his situation and himself, though, and maybe that is what will prompt him to want to change.  Maybe.

I just wanted to let my oppinnion about Akio. First of all sorry for my english because i'm spanish, catalan, being exact. In my oppinion he represents Lucifer, the angel (good akio) that betrayed god and became the devil (bad akio). That might explain the stars staff that he explained (his name comes from the star of lucifer). also, there is a book wich name is something like "gospel of witches" that talks about Aradia, the sister of lucifer, that is a witch. This one would be Anthy, that is also treated as a whitch on the serial.

Of course there is no relation between the behaviour of anthy, that is a "witch" that saved the prince she loved, and this Aradia, that is an extrange form to call the goddess Artemisa for a crystian guy that wanted to write a wich book, but won't you deny me the lucifer duality of akio, who is concidentally named in the serial.

It's possible that this is absolutely wrong, and probably giovanna (that I think that she likes a little bit this guy, akio, am I wrong? xD) has studied the matter more than me, but like I said before, I just wanted to let my oppinion. I hope someone reads and if it's possible, reply or suport this one.

If you want something, lluis.14.jackomolongo@gmail.com

Last edited by Jackomolongo (10-19-2011 09:43:08 AM)

Since I don't wanna start a new thread and clutter up forum space, I'll move my discussion of Akio's Influence in the Outside World with Satyreyes (from http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?p … 24#p245424) here:

satyreyes wrote:
Akio isn't stupid, and his power is extensive within the Academy.  But outside its walls, he has no such control, or else Anthy's departure would be no threat to him.

I wrote

From what we saw in SKU, Utena's parents' funeral seem to happen OUTSIDE Ohtori, and Akio and Anthy both can appear to child-Utena in that outside world as surreal entities to shackle her with the signet, which led the girl to Ohtori eventually.

Miki's Father seems to be located OUTSIDE of Ohtori, when he calls Miki to ask him to speak to his new wife, which from audience POV turns out to be Anthy in a rose bride dress.

And what I said upthread:

    The Mikage Seminar is said to have major POLITICIANS among its attendees (see first black rose ep), so Akio has control over these outside power players too.

From what I can see, Anthy's leaving threatens Akio's scenerio in that he lost a powerful ally in his plans - one who could become his enemy in the future.  But Utena freeing a handful of kids will likely leave very little dent in his scheme of things, as anyone (even the black rose duelists) can become duelists in his world

Satyreyes, if you're still interested in continuing this, fire away

Hi Satyreyes!

The first thing I'd like to do is turn the question around on you: why would Akio care what happens outside Ohtori?  What do you think his motivations are that would require him to turn his eyes outward?  Once I know that, I'll have a better idea what precisely we might agree or disagree on.  I do think it's very clear that none of your examples above show that Akio seeks to control the outside world.

I'll get to the "why would Akio care what happens outside Ohtori" in a moment; before that, allow me to start this off by stating the obvious:
that my examples clearly show that Akio have already exerted magic over people located in the outside world - Miki's Father seeing Anthy as his would be wife while located outside Ohtori, child-Utena seeing Dios and Anthy in a magical setting while in a church building away from Ohtori, politicians . . . I'll get to that in a bit.

That makes Akio, even post series, sound VERY powerful to me, which is my original point in countering the fangirly view that the post-show, Anthy-less Akio is "weak" somehow; he may not be as strong as he did with Anthy working for him, but compared to the individuals and groups in the "real" world, he stands wayyyy above them with his age-acquired cunning-ness and his clearly supernatural, superhuman powers.

and there isn't any evidence that Akio is exerting influence on politicians through Mikage.

I think miles will vary a lot on this one, considering how Akio is shown to have much power over Mikage, to the point that he can erase Mikage's and Nemuro Hall's existence.  If Mikage can have politicians in his seminar, to the point that the faculty know about it, it is because Akio and Anthy/Mamiya allows him to.  Why would Akio and Anthy/Mamiya allow Mikage to do anything using Ohtori as stage that does not serve their purpose? 

Think about it, suppose Akio is NOT  exerting influence on politicians through Mikage, then it will mean he is not in complete control of Mikage allying himself with outside politicians, meaning that the outside politicians are coming into Nemuro Hall - the heart of Ohtori - while NOT guided under Akio's control?  Would an entity like Akio want outside world power players - who are not influenced by him - to attend the Mikage Seminar and very possibly getting to know more about the side of Ohtori that cannot be make public?

And, suppose that Akio did not exert influence over the politicians who attended Mikage seminar, then those politicians should remember Mikage Seminar EVEN AFTER Mikage gets erased.   Wouldn't Ohtori Academy's officials get bombarded by Japanese political forces, medias (how does a functional building turn into a long-time ruin just overnight, where is Mikage, etc) as a result?  But that was not shown to happen, thus why I conclude that the politicians have their memories fiddled with by Akio and Anthy, which makes them just as "controlled" as the students of Ohtori.

As for the "why would Akio care what happens outside Ohtori" . . .

Remember the fable in Episode 34?  The prince is the

light of the world

. 

Quoting Ep 34:
Dios:  It's her punishment for stealing a prince from all the women of the world.
Dios:  That which could not be told until now: the Tale of the Rose.

In an ep where Anthy rides the red car with Akio and is pained by the swords of hate, Akio say he's not the one hurting her, it's the world.

Ep 38
Akio:  This room is the summit of Ohtori Academy, and of the world.
skip
Akio: I'll Revolutionize the World.

Ep 39
Anthy: You are he who chose this road, knowing the whole of the world.

HOW could an entity clearly capable of using magic (bewitchement/ partial mind-control) on individuals outside of Ohtori's grounds, who is so associated with the words "the world" (both by his speech and that of others), NOT CARE about what happens outside Ohtori?

The way I understand Akio's character, he has no reason to continue the dueling game in Anthy's absence.  He's not dueling because he wants to revolutionize the world.

With the apple fed Kanae scene, and how she never showed up in the post revolution student clips, I think it's safe to say that Akio has since prepped his replacement Rose Bride; the duels will continue with or without Anthy.

The way I understand it, Akio's origin is Dios.  Dios translates to God - God of all the world, not just God of a country or a school.

And God has control over more than just people's actions: he has control over human destinies AND over nature - over the stars, the moon, even the sun that makes the morning star pale.  Why watch the planetarium projections, if not partly to gain a sense of control over even the heavenly bodies?

Remember the Tokiko ep?  Ohtori's powers can affect even items in Tokiko's house (the hourglass, the specimen case), not shown to be inside the academy.

quote
Tokiko:  The streets around here are bad.
Tokiko:  It must have been difficult, with the roads all slushy.
<skip>
Mamiya:  The snow in this garden doesn't disappear so easily, does it?

Those items/locations were not inside the Academy, I don't think.  The "time" of the objects got fiddled with (slowed, and/or outright flowed backwards) - another sign that Akio want control over more than just human minds, but control over cosmic forces like time, like nature.


Akio already has some control over the outside world - just not to the extend that he can feel satisfied with. The Himemiyas' power is largely just "devil-level bewitchment upon humans + reversal of state" - it can make them powerful in any human society setting , but it pales in comparison with the true might of Dios.  It is my interpretation that Akio wants to "revolutionize the world" by regaining Dio's Godly, all-encompassing power over it - a great power that only a noble soul could ever have the chance to harness.  Knowing himself to be no longer be noble-minded, Akio then search for people with potential for noble-mindedness amongst innocent, less-tainted children (or, in Nemuro's case, a seemingly wooden but really passionate man with the noble intention of saving a dying child and rescuing a sister in distress), thus why the duels took place.

But his universe is the academy, and its students and staff are his subjects.  He has everything he wants, and it's all inside the academy.

If that's the case, he would have content himself with Mikage and those around him pre Utena.  There would be no reason to make contact with child-Utena back when she was just some kid in the outside who had no connection with the academy.  No, he's on a constant prowl around for a noble-potential-ed heart that he can seize and use to regain the Godly, all encompassing power of Dios.  The games will continue; without Anthy, there's Kanae, without Kanae, there's Mrs. Ohtori . . . the game will go on until he is satisfied with the outcome, or unless a powerful enough force (Anthy?  Post-series Utena?) put a stop to him.  Sure, one can argue that the endless game is a kinda damnation on him, but the ones who get hit with the blunt of his selfish actions will be the weak humans he can manipulate like toys - and he can still do it over and over again.  Is he evil and self-damning?  Yes. Weak? Not by my definition.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (08-27-2012 08:36:11 PM)

I do get the impression that he's not as powerful as he makes himself out to be as well. He compares himself to Lucifer, but Lucifer is not really all-powerful, which is why I think the comparison works as more than a blatant hint that Akio is bad.

Wow . . . I waited like 24 hrs and the feedbacks come in droves

Satyreyes, I'm going to clarify what I wrote before.  You don't have to reply to this if you do not want to (you're always welcome to, of course).
Satyreyes wrote:

Your headcanon, of course, is yours.

I myself respect the headcanon of many others on this board . . . so long as they don't blatantly contradict the facts shown in the SKU-canon, and that they fit in with logic.

Everything Akio does in the outside world is part of the much narrower game inside the academy.
<SKIP>
  I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that Akio controls the outside world when SKU shows us practically no outside world for Akio to control!

I guess you just answered your own question of whether there's an outside world shown in SKU for Akio to (potentially or else) control there, Satyreyes. 
As for my take on Akio, it was as I stated previously:

Akio have already exerted magic over people located in the outside world - Miki's Father seeing Anthy as his would be wife while located outside Ohtori, child-Utena seeing Dios and Anthy in a magical setting while in a church building away from Ohtori,
<SKIP>
That makes Akio, even post series, sound VERY powerful to me, which is my original point in countering the fangirly view that the post-show, Anthy-less Akio is "weak" somehow; he may not be as strong as he did with Anthy working for him, but compared to the individuals and groups in the "real" world, he stands wayyyy above them with his age-acquired cunning-ness and his clearly supernatural, superhuman powers.

Satyreyes wrote
We don't see him chatting with politicians or power brokers.

Instead, we are told of Anthy/Mamiya’s pawn Mikage chatting with politicians or power brokers right inside Ohtori; Anthy/Mamiya, who was then a pawn of Akio.

We don't even see him leave campus except when he's trying to recruit or promote a pawn for the dueling game.

So you understand that Akio can locate potential pawns from people who are not-inside Ohtori, and then draw them in with his abilities.  For Akio to be able to locate and ensnare, say, a seemingly irrelevant child like Utena, means that either:

a)    Akio do a number of active searches in the outside world for potential pawns (eventually chancing upon Utena), and thus “gets around” and is in touch with the world 
b)    Akio has control over  “eyes-and-ears” in the outside who locate potential pawns for him (whom eventually told him of Utena), and thus gets relevant info from them about the world.  Such “eyes-and-ears” will be very resourceful, well-connected people to be able to find people with the kinda duelists qualifications that Akio want.

Neither possibility makes a resourceful entity like Akio a shut-in with little impact in the world – he sees the people outside Ohtori, and has his pick from them to serve his purpose.  That sounds powerful to me (miles could vary depending on what people want out of SKU’s story, of course).

Like, Akio may not choose to (but he can if he wants to), say, leave Ohtori to run for election as Japan’s next Prime Minister, but he can ensnare people important to the PM – or maybe the PM himself – into Ohtori if he so desires, if he believes doing so will serve his purpose. 

And politicians had been shown to be connected to Ohtori, which I’ll get to in my reply to rhyaniwyn.

Lurv wrote:
I do get the impression that he's not as powerful as he makes himself out to be as well.

Hey Lurv!  While that may or may not be the case, Akio being even 1/2 as powerful as he “makes himself out to be” will still make him more powerful than any non-Anthy character in the SKU-verse; none of the others were shown to be able to appear in various guises (child/Dios, Adult Akio), or make time flow backwards even outside Ohtori, except Anthy, his biggest (and likely, only) threat post revolution.

Hi rhyaniwyn!

rhyaniwyn wrote;
So if he needs to make something happen occasionally off-campus, he probably can.

Which, considering his supernatural powers, his manipulative cunningness, and his place in the "real world" as the heir of the presumably wealthy Ohtori clan, gives him a lot of potential power over almost anyone he is to contact in the real world - and we KNOW he HAD actively roamed the outside world to bewitch people who had no previous connections to Ohtori, like child-Utena, which he then bring into his game inside Ohtori.

But that doesn't mean he controls the world off-campus like he does in Ohtori.

Which brings us to the question - how does Akio control the people in Ohtori, exactly?
The "magical" Castle and the Arena are used to awe the Student Council into following his letters . . . but was magic all that he used to control people?
Akio has been shown as an expect user of the "Pawn Chain Technique" when it comes to controlling people, SC or otherwise.  The Pawn Chain works as follows:

Akio =HasControlOver= A =HasControlOver= B =HasControlOver= C . . . . etc

eg: 
Akio =HasControlOver= Mrs. Ohtori =HasControlOver= Mr. Ohtori =HasControlOver= Entire School

Akio =HasControlOver= Shiori (who “conveniently” returns right in time to seize Juri's sword) =HasControlOver= Juri (forced to surrender sword) =HasControlOver= Utena (being made to duel thus have her heart sword tested/strengthened for Akio’s purpose)

Akio =HasControlOver= Kozue =HasControlOver= Miki =HasControlOver= Utena (being made to duel thus have her heart sword tested/strengthened for Akio’s purpose))

Akio =HasControlOver= Anthy  =HasControlOver= Mikage, plus a whole bunch of other ppl doing a number of things to serve his purpose.

Considering how Akio was shown to have
a)    Brains
b)    Looks (more than one look counting the Dios guise)
c)    Magic enough to alter surroundings
while outside Ohtori, how difficult will it be for him to set up similar Pawn Chains in the outside if he wants to?

I know some will again argue the "why would he want to" angle.  But if Akio's duelist list include both irrelevant people on the outside (like child Utena, eventually enrolled in Ohtori), and ex-students he wants back into the game (like Shiori and Ruka, both of whom returning to Ohtori at the exact right moments to serve his purpose), then having Pawn Chains in the "outside world" seem like a must for Akio . . .  unless he could just magically teleport people from the outside world into the school (while fiddling with their minds and making them think they transferred there), then he’s all the more powerfully magically.

1. She's not real.  Anthy hypnotized Miki's father into acting like he was getting remarried.
2. "In the end, all girls are like the Rose Bride"

#1 proves that Anthy can work magic on Miki’s father while outside Ohtori, leading me to believe that Akio, who can show up as Dios outside, can likely do the same
#2 . . . so why is Miki’s “stepmom” (really a woman, not a girl) shown as the only one, especially there is no sign that Miki even considered the possibility that his stepmom, who threatens his family’s unity just by being, would be anything like his shining thing Anthy.

Either way, if Akio no longer controls the Rose Bride he can't make things like that happen.

But just because Akio uses Anthy as pawn, and that Anthy uses magic on her pawns, does not mean that un-aging Akio cannot use magic without Anthy by his side.  It’s not like he needs Anthy to make time flow backwards (both in and outside Ohtori) in the Nemuro Era, and he still can appear in other guises (like Dios) on his own.

As to Utena's parents' funeral, Akio didn't do much.  He was, arguably, still almost Dios at the time -- we don't know for sure if it was Akio, Dios, himself post-Dios but pre-formally-Akio, or Dios's ghost.

But the “Modern Dios Ghost” was revealed in ep 39 to have been Akio himself all along (thus why he taunted Utena via carousel horse); chronologically, Utena met Dios WAY after Nemuro Era, so the Dios child Utena see is really Akio.  Under Dios guise, Akio was the one to have “spirited away” Utena such that the adults cannot find her (otherwise why would no one look in the church buiding), prepared the coffin (likely magical) for Utena; and appeared as Dios; Anthy’s role as the sword-pierced apparition seem like an accomplice at most.

Think of an Indian man flute-playing a cobra to dance for the crowd: the man is the real "charmer", not the puppeted cobra.

For what we know he did, he had no need to control the outside world, he merely visited it and took Utena to see something.  So what he did do was essentially magic and relied on sympathy for Anthy.

He would need to have some control over the outside world to lead Utena to enrol into Ohtori, and to get Shiori and Ruka to return right when he needs them in the duels.

because it's hard to say what Akio did for Mikage and what Mikage had the ability to do for himself.  And with the end wiping out so many of the events...

For no politicians/media (outside people) to show up and question the vanishing of Mikage Seminar means that Akio and Anthy had either tempered with their memories or shut them up with their powers – more hints (if not definite proofs) that Akio could have means to control people on the outside.   And what I said before; why would Akio and Anthy allow outside politician into Ohtori’s Nemuro Hall if that is not part of their plans?  Mikage is completely under Anthy’s control from end of Nemuro Era up to his graduation, and Anthy is largely under Akio’s control at the time.

But, again, Anthy and her magic were the instrument of Mikage's control.  If there's no Anthy, there's no one to pose as a ghost and whisper temptations into anyone's ear.  And there is no reason to think those politicians owe favors to Akio.

If there’s no Anthy, Akio, who can appear in various guises, can act that role himself (remember the Dios ghost that entrapped Utena?).  The “siblings” are shown as supernatural-beings of a similar kind.  If Anthy can display a certain kind of magical power, it's reasonable to believe that Akio can too.  Do you think a woman of wealth, power and ageless beauty (see her flawless lower profile and body) like Mrs. Ohtori would give the “only prince” title to just any young social-climbing stud?

So, I don't necessarily think there's a hard boundary of where Akio's influence stops.  However, as satyr said, we're not given enough evidence to make assumptions that it's rampant anywhere but on campus.
<SKIPS>
thematically, Akio's playing "I'm king of the castle, and you're the dirty rascal" in a closed space,

Am I the only one to notice how SKU purposely showed Utena’s deflowering by Akio to have happened OUTSIDE OHTORI?  What does THAT say thematically?

The roads the Akio Car roams are shown to have lead to places like a carnival fair place and a hotel (at which Akio and Utena had sex) - places outside Ohtori, which leads me to believe that much (if not all) of the roads are part of the outside-of-Ohtori world too.

These are also the roads upon which Akio did his seemingly physics-defying acrobatic feats, and where the kids see whatever magical ends of the world Akio shows them.

Anthy was not shown to be present then.

To me, this again establishes that Akio can work considerable magic outside Ohtori even without Anthy beside him.

This is likely the last post I’m writing on this topic, as whatever else I say in future posts will likely get too repetitive.   We’re all free to interpret SKU however we want; but for me, I’m only inclined to believe in fact-based interpretations – not what I WANT to have been the canon, but what the canon is showing me with its plot facts and its visuals.

@gorgeousshutin

I disagree on two fundamental points:

Your assumption is that Akio can do magic.  He cannot.  Any ability he had to do so he lost along with his Dios self.  Anthy, based on what we see, can.  I can't name a single thing Akio did that was attributed to him without any possibility of Anthy's participation in it.  This is why Anthy's defection is a Big Deal for Akio -- on or off campus.  He is a skilled manipulator as well, but frequently relies on apparent magic in order to exploit others' weaknesses.  Therefore he's taken a critical hit, although obviously anything he could do on his own he can still do -- if he wants, which is another subject altogether (he probably doesn't want).

The second is that Akio has invested equal or more attention into the outside world.  As satyr said, Akio simply wouldn't be Akio if he thought and acted globally.  He's self-centered to the point of only caring about his immediate surroundings.  So, while I agree Akio can & has gone outside and can & has occasionally pulled some strings there, he's just not a major player.  I just frankly don't see getting students to attend what is obviously an exclusive private school as requiring too much power.

One of the things about Akio in Ohtori is that he's a big fish in a small pond.  Outside he's a small fish in a big ocean.  I agree with some of your points, but I don't ascribe the same level of import to Akio or his abilities outside / sans Anthy.

#2 . . . so why is Miki’s “stepmom” (really a woman, not a girl) shown as the only one, especially there is no sign that Miki even considered the possibility that his stepmom, who threatens his family’s unity just by being, would be anything like his shining thing Anthy.

I can only repeat, "In the end, all girls are like the Rose Bride".  One of the most important things Anthy ever says.  It's character-defining, thematically essential, and weighted with myriad possible interpretations.  I don't have the words to explain why it strikes me as important to that scene, unfortunately.

Last edited by rhyaniwyn (08-30-2012 09:02:26 AM)

I don't know that it's important that there was a Dios, so long as Akio knows he used to be Dios. The fall seems more important to me than the actual height from which he fell. Even if Akio's power is all illusion and allusion, though, he's still pretty impressive, and he wields it well.

(Pretty sure this is related.)
The consensus here seems to be that Akio was the prince in Utena's episode 34 flashback. I disagree, and here's why:
- The prince doesn't look like Akio. It's argued that he changed his appearance to appeal to the younger Utena, but then why would he go back to his adult appearance later, instead of adopting the one that would hold more influence over his champion?
- The prince is never identified as Dios. It looks like him, but he discusses the Tale of the Rose as if he has no relation to it. The outfit is the same, but after all, isn't that just the uniform of princes in the same way the Rose Bride gown is the uniform of princesses? In the movie, where Dios never existed, the spirit of the prince still takes on this form.
It seems like it can be argued either way. Akio says he was, but it would benefit him to lie, wouldn't it?