This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#51 | Back to Top03-01-2013 10:10:31 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: The Utena Tarot

crystalwren wrote:

I also have the quiet feeling that he'd make a decent argument for being on the Devil card. Yeh I know, it's supposed to be Akio. I'll have to read a bit more to figure out why I think this, but I do get a little subtle push to the hindbrain over this.

This seems reasonable to me.  The Devil -- the way I learned it -- is about hangups, about self-imposed imprisonment to one's own desire or fear.  Mikage both exemplifies this and encourages others to do the same.  I think he's a strong candidate.

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#52 | Back to Top03-01-2013 01:51:18 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: The Utena Tarot

Myself, I wouldn't use the traditional Major Arcana. Which kind of defeats the purpose, I know, but I like to be contrarian.

Going with the 'story' motif to the Tarot that satyreyes introduced earlier in this thread, let's create 22 arcana unique to Utena itself:

0: The Prince. The prologue to the story, establishing the beginning of Utena's character arc.

1: The Rose Bride. A new player appears to draw the protagonist into a new and magical world.

2: The Rose Signet. The protagonist attempts to escape, but her most treasured memories tie her to the world she wants no part in.

3: The Choice. Represented by Saionji. The protagonist crosses the threshold willingly, showing her determination by fighting.

4: The Test. Represented by Miki. As the protagonist is drawn deeper, she is forced to fight a less clear-cut battle to show her commitment.

5: The Pest. Represented by Nanami. A lesser evil strikes the protagonist, causing more annoyance than dread.

6: The Hand of Providence. Represented by the sword falling during Juri's duel. When the protagonist finds herself utterly lost, divine force intervenes to guide and protect her.

7: The Scarlet Man. Represented by Touga. The protagonist meets a powerful man, one who threatens to lure her away from her lofty goals.

8: The Rescue. Represented by Touga leaping in front of Utena when Saionji is about to kill her. The protagonist is unable to save herself, forcing another to save her.

9: The Pestilence. Represented by Duelist-Nanami. What was once considered harmless now threatens the protagonist directly, going beyond the restraints of her typical conflict to harm her.

10: The Reveal. Represented by a shirtless Touga. The 'Scarlet Man' is now shown to be nothing that he claimed to be - betraying the protagonist in the process.

11: The Victory. Represented by Utena-in-a-girl's-uniform-with-Juri's-sword - you know, this image. The protagonist conquers her former flaws and becomes all she said she was.

After this point, I might not know what to put on any of these cards.

12: Reminiscence. Having achieved worldly success, our protagonist now turns to introjection.

13: Eternity. The protagonist begins to examine ladders to success. One is to hold on to the past or present forever, by any means one has.

14: Conquest. Another path is the abandonment of all inhibitions in favor of selfish appeasement.

15: Longing. Yet another path, possibly the most futile: pointless dreaming of what can never be.

16: Sacrifice. A more hopeful path: giving up on oneself for the sake of one person, to give them happiness.

17: Destruction. Frustration leads some to blind anger and violence. There is no end goal here.

18: Growth. The protagonist decides that the only way to find a 'true path' is to have experiences - experiences which, although painful, can ultimately lead to progress.

19: Apocalypse. Having seen the world, some see destruction and rebirth as the only path to change.

20: Agape. I used a Greek word because I don't think there's any similarly quick English equivalent. Unconditional love in the face of betrayal.

21: Revolution. Kabbalah teaches that human will has the ability to affect the state of Creation, and that's what I'd like this card to emphasize. Just not sure how.

Any thoughts? I'm sure this was nearly incoherent. emot-rofl

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#53 | Back to Top03-01-2013 01:55:33 PM

Decrescent Daytripper
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Re: The Utena Tarot

Atropos wrote:

b]5: The Pest.[/b] Represented by Nanami. A lesser evil strikes the protagonist, causing more annoyance than dread.

Poor Nanami.

And, that poor, poor kitten.

Oh, look! Is that elephants?

I like the structure you've worked up, Atropos.


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#54 | Back to Top03-01-2013 03:43:14 PM

gorgeousshutin
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Re: The Utena Tarot

Welcome back, Atropos emot-biggrin

13: Eternity. The protagonist begins to examine ladders to success. One is to hold on to the past or present forever, by any means one has.

Me thinks this one is a toss up between Saionji and Mikage, though I personally think Mikage is more fitting.


(SKU/MPD) Seinen Kakumei Utena (Completed as of May 12, 2018) / (PSOH/SKU) Revolutionary Human Leon (Updated to Part 4 as of Oct 31, 2017) / (NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016) / (BananaFish) Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 1, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works or https://www.fanfiction.net/u/3978886/

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#55 | Back to Top03-01-2013 07:24:00 PM

waifu
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Registered: 01-12-2013
Posts: 14

Re: The Utena Tarot

crystalwren wrote:

waifu wrote:

>i see alot of argument on the fool. utena or mikage?

Why not both?

I guess it's because in all the decks and books I've ever come across, there's only one Fool.
.

I was thinking of fitting them on one card. Mikage is basically rule63'd Utena, after all.

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#56 | Back to Top03-01-2013 07:54:11 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: The Utena Tarot

waifu wrote:

I was thinking of fitting [Mikage and Utena] on one card. Mikage is basically rule63'd Utena, after all.

I'll reiterate from earlier in the thread:

I wrote:

I don't see Mikage as the Fool at all.  The Fool is optimistic and carefree.  He is NEVER cynical and wouldn't have the first idea how to manipulate anybody.  True, Mikage is walking off a cliff because he isn't watching where he's going, but the Fool doesn't watch because the Fool doesn't understand the concept of danger; Mikage doesn't watch because Mikage wallows in self-deceit.  Utena is a wonderful fit.  Chu Chu is okay.  Mikage... honestly, I really don't see it.

I stand by all that -- and I'll add that Mikage just plain isn't the main character.  Mikage could feature on some imagining of the Tower, or the Moon, or the Devil, or the Hierophant, or even Justice, but not the Fool.

Atropos, I like your idea of adapting the whole Major Arcana to suit SKU's story emot-smile  I'm not sure whether it's still a Tarot deck at that point, but that's semantics.  It's tempting to just go all-out and say, fuck it, there's gonna be 39 trumps, one for each episode.  But I think I like your approach better.  I admire how you've used Choice -- the canon name of one of Saionji's duels -- as the name of a card featuring that duel, and I like how you didn't use the names of the other duels, which aren't such good thematic fits.  I love "The Scarlet Man" -- what a fantastic name for a Tarot card.  I'm less fond of some of the other names, which get pretty abstract.  I like the way that traditional Tarot decks use concrete symbols for most of the ideas they represent.  So I would try to examine what symbols SKU uses for these story ideas, and name the cards after those symbols.  If there is no symbol for some of the ideas, maybe they should be other ideas instead.

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#57 | Back to Top03-01-2013 08:09:25 PM

Atropos
Atropos Turretslayer
From: Hampden College
Registered: 10-22-2011
Posts: 907

Re: The Utena Tarot

Yeah, I was more trying to work with a concept than create anything worthwhile. Maybe you could start by looking at the most significant events and symbols of SKU and then reduce them to their most archetypical level?

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#58 | Back to Top03-01-2013 09:34:18 PM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
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Re: The Utena Tarot

Personally, I think Nemuro is The Hanged Man.


Flowers without names blooming in the field can only sway in the wind. But I was born with a destiny of roses, born to live in passion and glory.

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