This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
#26 | Back to Top12-23-2006 09:51:04 AM
- A Day Without Me
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Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
To go back to the animals statue, and the Musicians of Bremen...
In addition to the whole "outside world as Bremen" thing, notice that the animals in the story never get there - they instead wind up at the house, and they live there ever after. So the house they end up at could be considered an Ohtori, since they haven't made it to Bremen (a.k.a. the outside world), yet they have gotten away from an environment where they had absolutely no control (for the animals, it was their owners; for the duelists, it was their parents).
If the animals represent the children, then the robbers in the house represent adults - and the children chase the adults out of their world.
"I'm bringing paxil back. (Yup)
My HMO might just pick up the tab. (Yup)
I got the tremors and I need a nap. (Yup)
I gave my rent check to them Pfizer cats."
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#28 | Back to Top12-23-2006 08:42:02 PM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
The thing about Castor and Pollux is that Greeks weren't (so far as I know, and I've only taken a little bit of Art History, so feel free to correct me) really given to sculpting children. Eros was typically depicted as a youth until the late Hellenistic/Roman period, when he began to be sculpted more frequently as a winged child. But since they are mentioned at other times, they seem like good candidates.
The posing of that sculpture suggests Hellenstic or later to me anyway, though. Classical Greek sculpture wasn't given to poses of action or sculpture meant to be viewed from many angles...
Oh, and if you think one of the children is actually an older man, there's a sculpture of Bacchus and a satyr (sans goat-feet) that is similar. They still both look like kids to me...
Last edited by rhyaniwyn (12-23-2006 08:43:04 PM)
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#29 | Back to Top12-24-2006 03:32:43 AM
- Lightice
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Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
Oh, and if you think one of the children is actually an older man, there's a sculpture of Bacchus and a satyr (sans goat-feet) that is similar. They still both look like kids to me...
Satyrs always have goat-feet. It's their definative characteristic, as far as I've been able to tell. You sure it's not a some other kind of nature-spirit? They both do look more like children to me, as well, though...
The sculpture could also be a neo-classic work from the Renaissance times, when they mimiced the classic Greek style, like Michelangelo's David, so we can't necccecarily limit the possibility to the ancient Greek or Roman eras.
Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!
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#30 | Back to Top12-24-2006 12:09:55 PM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q60/ … tatue3.jpg
Okay, my bad, not a man, but an older boy. I just don't think that they're twins. The one on the right has a distinctly longer torso, and his leg is bent so that they appear the same height. (hopes the picture shows up)
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#31 | Back to Top12-25-2006 12:20:47 AM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
Lightice wrote:
Satyrs always have goat-feet. It's their definative characteristic, as far as I've been able to tell. You sure it's not a some other kind of nature-spirit?
I was looking on the web and saw several pictures of this statue, each described as "Bacchus" being supported by a "Satyr." That is why I amended my first post to "almost always" portrayed with goat feet. The goat imagery is inseparable from satyr-dom, in my opinion. But I defer to the presumed experts, who apparently called the boy a Satyr. How can you be a Satyr without having goat feet? Can you be a Centaur without having a horse body? I have no idea. It's just what I read.
Lightice wrote:
The sculpture could also be a neo-classic work from the Renaissance times, when they mimiced the classic Greek style, like Michelangelo's David, so we can't necccecarily limit the possibility to the ancient Greek or Roman eras.
Yep. Plus, the animal statue isn't Greek or Roman, so it's not like they are all from that era.
We've solved half of them...I'm a little skeptical of finding a definitive match to the woman, it's so generic. But surely if half of them are copies of real statues, the other half are too???
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#32 | Back to Top12-28-2006 10:12:21 AM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
The statues are also in Unfulfilled Juri, so maybe there isn't any significance or maybe there is something related to the both of those episodes. The titles are kind of similar, I suppose.
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#33 | Back to Top12-28-2006 10:28:56 AM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
I've got shots of that, it's a long pan, not the same statue. Also I think you see them reflected in water; I'll piece it together when I get home and post.
I've been looking a lot at the first arc, where you see a lot of shots of the school itself, and there are so many ruins there. Abandoned buildings, random columns and arches that look like they lost the thing they held up. The similarities to what you see of ruins in Greece and Rome get hard to ignore. I wonder, time being what it is in the school, if these statues didn't appear there in due time with their cultures, instead of, say, installed there recently as odes to the past.
Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)
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#34 | Back to Top12-28-2006 06:18:39 PM
Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
As promised! Some new ones, some repeats. 
utena: There, there... 
utena: What a pain, crying at this hour...
utena: Oh, there, there...
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q60/ … -14387.jpg
(Tables OUCHY, this is the pan of the water.)
utena: Chuchu, please, go to sleep already. I'm really sleepy myself.
utena: Huh? Arisugawa-sempai? 
utena: I thought so.
juri: Oh, it's you.
utena: Since you're not wearing your usual uniform, I almost didn't recognize you.
juri: Really?
utena: You really look like a supermodel.
utena: You look gallant in your uniform,
utena: but everyone would be surprised if they saw you this ladylike.
utena: So, why are you here by yourself this late?
juri: You even wear that at night, huh?
utena: Yeah...
juri: Why are you always dressed like a boy?
utena: Well, how should I put it...
utena: To tell the truth, I'm influenced by my prince.
juri: Prince?
utena: When I was a little kid, I met a prince.
utena: And he said "I want that you should never lose your strength and nobility."
utena: And then, as a reminder of our encounter, he gave me this.
utena: "It will lead you to where I'll be," he said.
utena: He looked so cool to me.
utena: I want to see him again.
utena: I mean, I want to become as close to him as I can.
utena: And so, I wear this.
utena: Oh, sorry for telling you strange stories like this...
utena: However, I don't believe the Student Council
utena: about the Rose Bride or the power of miracles, but... 
utena: How should I put it... I can believe in the fate between him and me.
utena: If you call it a miracle, maybe it is one, but...
utena: Sempai...?
juri: Your Rose Signet, throw this ring away!
juri: It's disgusting! Your so-called nobility is to copycat as someone you love told you! 
juri: Yes, fighting over the Rose Bride
juri: is just as stupid as your sentiment to your prince!
juri: However, to be qualified for that, you must be truly noble!
juri: The Rose Signet doesn't suit a girl the likes of you!
utena: No!
utena: This is my one and only tie with him. I won't lose it, no matter what!
Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)
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#35 | Back to Top12-29-2006 02:21:04 AM
- Lightice
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Re: "Her Tragedy" -- the statues and their meanings.
And just yesterday I watched that episode and taught about mentioning it, today...
A lion with its paw on a ball is a more widely used theme for a sculpture. On the other hand, I can't remember a single such sculpture that has the lion's mouth open, much less with that many teeth. I wonder if they've actually changed the original model, here, to make a some sort of a point...
Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!
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