Hmm, I will think about this some more but what I see right off, is that yes, it seems to be the same place, changed to show the passage of time. Poor Mikage, he is trying an ATTEMPTED "seduction", trying to get Miki to join his "seminar". Maybe he thinks if he sits in Akio's place where Akio was successful in his own seduction, it gives he, Mikage, some more mojo. But alas, he is not Akio and Miki turns him down. Another defeat for Mikage. Makes it even sadder.

It's definitely the same place, the only differences are the lighting and the view, closer and a little higher in the scene with Miki.

Obviously Mikage wanted Miki to sit on his lap... In terms of appearance, Miki is probably the closest to what Mamiya actually looked like.



Of course that would be a buried, subconscious comparison in a buried, subconscious personality.

Meta-ly I think it's done to further establish Mikage's character, since this is his introductory episode. First we see him in the basement with Mamiya, then we learn he does 'favors' for random businessmen; followed by Miki declining to join the seminar in the connecting scene.

The first gives Mikage his motivation for getting involved at that point in the story, after thirteen espisodes which never mentioned his existence. Touga's out of the picture, with the student council in disarray, it's the ideal time to strike.

The second shows that he's exceedingly intelligent and devious, surpassing the adults he deals with and holding them in debt rather than accepting payment for his services.

And the third establishes the connection between Mikage and the cast of the show. Miki's already the in-between character for Utena and the council which is specifically used after he exits the hall, when Utena and Anthy find him. Miki's the one who first mentions the one hundred dead duellists. And, whether it was planned at the time or not, this bookends with Mikage's final episode where it's again Miki in the same site but unable to quite recall the details.

As for Miki and the piano teacher... I don't know, if they had sexual relations it seems unlikely he'd be comfortable showing such closeness in public. Not to mention his hangups about adults, though that isn't explicitly mentioned for another twelve episodes.

I don't really think this scene with Miki it's only for introducing us the character. They could use pretty much anyone to introduce the story of the murdered students. (And I must admit bringing the debate of Miki and his piano teacher is rather off topic).

So. When Mikage brings Miki to the same place, it's like if he wanted to be Akio and wanted Miki to be Tokiko.

Akio made out with Tokiko in order to manipulate Nemuro.
Mikage wants to make out with Miki in order to ....???

Last edited by Epi_lepsia (08-15-2010 11:12:29 PM)

Wow, I NEVER noticed this. I always recognized it was the same area as where Mikage saw Akio with Tokikio, and I always felt like something was a really familiar with that scene... but I never actually stopped to make the connection. I think it was definitely intentional.

I don't think its necessarily about Mikage wanting to make-out with Miki (although you could interpret it that way - Miki would be the candidate for it, being that he is a young boy) especially since Miki is sitting across from Mikage and not in his lap. I think its more about where Mikage is sitting... where Akio was sitting. It speaks volumes of how Mikage is trying to become like Akio, or at least someone more like Akio. Powerful, manipulative, more sociable than Nemuro, and seductive, perhaps?

(Off-topic again, but I tend to think Miki never slept with his piano teacher at all... I think he's just completely oblivious to the manipulation/abuse of adults.  Maybe there should be a thread for that topic...)

I tend to agree with SDF on all counts here -- I don't specifically think Mikage wanted to mack on Miki in this scene, though that isn't to say I don't think we're supposed to get that impression. To be honest, Mikage is portrayed throughout his arc as highly sexualised, although in counterpoint to Touga's easy playboy figure in the preceding arc, Mikage shows a darker aspect: he is obsessive and clearly gives off the aura of something of a creeper. Yes, Mikage's interaction with Miki is clearly sexualised, but then most of his interactions with other people are. I'd have to watch the arc properly again to be more specific, but from the beginning you can see it in the powerplay with the teachers, the fact Mamiya is dressing himself in their first episode together, the way he flirts with Nanami in front of Tsuwabuki, the creepy way he talks to Saionji in the dorm room...these are all very, very opposite to the way Nemuro would behave, which of course we don't find out until the end. Mikage is the manifestation of Nemuro's repressed sexual desire, among other things, and now that he's out he's making the most of it. Though I certainly won't deny that the way it manifests with Miki is probably because Mikage has a thing for destitute orphan boys...er, younger men. But yeah, from a narrative standpoint, Mikage's sexuality mixed with obsession and manipulation is clearly a prelude for the audience later getting mindfucked by Akio.

As for Miki and the piano teacher...I don't think they ever did anything, really. I think honestly in that scene that Miki was trying to hurt Kozue's feelings by using body language to say "Hey, look, I can have fun without you too!" The piano teacher is probably more relevant in the sense Kozue doesn't need a teacher anymore because she quit playing, so it's a bit of a nasty jab. In reality, the teacher has totally got a boner and thinks it's his fucking lucky day. Miki's later conversation with Mikage (or was it before then?) is just an echo of Miki's seeming obliviousness to sex, although he seems more attuned to Mikage's signals. We also know Miki DOES realise things about sex, he just...doesn't want to acknowledge them. I'd try to do deeper with this () but to be honest, Miki's not one of the characters I tend to analyse much. Although to be honest, maybe I should, as I really shouldn't have anything else to say about Mikage after all I've wanked on about him...

Oh, and Android raptor, that's not really OT at all -- the equation of Mikage with Manet's prostitute is valid no matter how you look at it. As I said Mikage's been sexualised in his arc, and his body isn't really his own; he's Akio's "imaginary living body" and even though he's convinced himself he wants to do all these things, he's doing it for Akio's benefit and not his own. Poor bastard. The "god" genius has been repainted as a whore. (Which in some ways almost reflects the dichotomy of Miki and Kozue...)

Epi_lepsia wrote:

I think I can sleep now. Thank you so much

I wish I could. Now I just want to watch the Black Rose Arc and analyse Miki and Kozue in general. Dammit!

In the first shot, the back wall is straight. In the second, the glass windows seem to be at an angle, implying a corner behind the pillar. Is it just me?

minervana wrote:

In the first shot, the back wall is straight. In the second, the glass windows seem to be at an angle, implying a corner behind the pillar. Is it just me?

I wonder?

I can't recall off the top of my head, but the first scene with Akio and Tokikio was supposed to take place in Nemuro Memorial Hall, wasn't it? And given that the hall itself appears ruined when Mikage doesn't want people to see it, I think it'd be easy to make the leap from 'appears ruined' to 'really is ruined'. Akio's tower is fucking huge, and the combined magic of Anthy and the projector can make people see what Anthy and Akio want them to see. It'd be easy to make the case that every scene set in the Hall is actually in the Tower, with the projector supplying the illusion. The differences between the two shots could be a subtle clue that the first scene is taking place in the true Hall, while the second happens in the fake Hall which is actually the Tower; even though the room looks the same it really isn't.

Or it could be be more of the infamous shoddy animation. What the hell.

In regards to Miki and the piano teacher, I honestly believe that Miki has no idea of what the piano teacher is thinking, or how inappropriate the situation is, or that he is being preyed upon. I also think that he's pretty much clueless on just about all forms of sexuality. I'm of the (vastly outnumbered) camp that Miki and Kozue DIDN'T play Mothers and Fathers or Doctors and Nurses as kids. I do think that Kozue is doing all she can to hammer the concept of sexuality into his pretty little skull, but she's cunning enough to realise that if she made an overt move he'd react badly. He has to be manipulated into doing it himself. Kozue is very hypersexualised, and Miki is the only other person in the world she gives a flying fuck about, therefore she wants to have him to herself in every possible way. Sex- or messy, miserable attempted sex- is definitely in their future. I really don't think it's in their past, and I really don't think Miki understands (at that stage) what either Kozue or the piano teacher want from him.

Last edited by crystalwren (08-24-2010 04:32:03 AM)