On Nanami's Egg: I connected Touga's trauma with Nanami's episodes. I start to think that her episodes might be one of the most serious of the SKU. That's why it's so metaphorical.

I start to think that Nanami didn't pick Touga because of her sexual attraction to him.  They could be both molested - he turned into an oversexualized creature while she picked the non-sexual path because she couldn't turn into the predator. She might pick someone sexually unavaiable to her so she wouldn't face her sexuality. So Nanami likes the idea of purity and has the best relationships with SKU virgins. She destroyed Anthy's dress to shame her and expose her body in a very slut-shaming way. Her platonic love for Touga is expressed in a sexual way because she doesn't know how non-sexual relationship looks like.

She transferred her love to a playboy to have an excuse to openly hate sexually active women. She cannot be a sexual predator like Touga is so she K.O's the girls he had used. That's why she agrees to have henchwomen. She cannot hate Touga for being sexually active because they share trauma so she identifies with him. If she were interested in being closer to him, she would take part in his love life as some kind of a wingwoman.

She might accept the sexuality when it serves the purpose, that's why she's more confused than terrified when she finds the egg. When it comes to nanami's episodes, it might be important that both eggs and milk are pregnancy-related.

I looked in the index, and didn't see anything about this.  There's nothing listed for episode 35.

So... Akio surrounded by potted cacti.  What is the significance of this?

There is a lot of flower and general plant imagery in this episode in general, actually.

And how about Touga taking photos of Akio?  In one shot, Akio is wearing his typical chairman clothes (red shirt, etc.).  In the next, he is in his End of the World outfit, and is showing off his chest.    A lot of naked male chests are exposed by both Touga and Akio in this episode, actually.

Then... Akio rubbing his chest with his fingers around where nipples would be.

The imagery of the one car with the reflection of a bunch of cars confuses me, too.

I though I was wrong FOR REAL for a second, YOU MEANIE!

However...this is AWESOME

Last edited by SeizonSenryaku (09-12-2014 01:59:07 PM)

For me, the children laughing etc always seemed to me to be a representative of the childish dreams and childish ideas about how the world works, the ideas that are holding Utena (and Anthy, and probably most of all Akio) back from becoming self-actualized adults.

The forks... Without getting into apple and Adam/Eve symbolism, which I've never really bought into in that scene, I've alwas felt that the forks were a representative of how many hooks Akio and Anthy had in Kanae. How utterly helpless she was in the face of their power and manipulation. Feeding her the apple, to me, always seemed like a representation of how they kept her under control, almost mindless except for the ability to do what they dictated she would do.

About the music, I'm not sure. I'd have to rewatch that scene; it's an episode I tend to skim over in favor of the last two.

Sweetgm2 wrote:

Also what was the meaning of the scene in episode 37 with the skipping music in the background and the part where Utena and Anthy are mentioning how they want to spend time laughing and drinking tea they disappear from the room?

I just rewatched that scene and you're right, the music is skipping!

I never noticed that before, and now that you mention it  there are quite a few things off in a 'glitch in the matrix' kind of way, in that scene and the beginning of the following one - the camera skips back and forth, the music is glitching, a red rose spinner appears even though Touga is neither present nor has any impact on the scene. I thought that the spinner has to indicate something, some obscure connection, but together with the camera and the music it just might be - a glitch!

The interaction between Utena and Anthy in said scene is telling, too:

Anthy mentions poison to Utena, who is happily munching on the cookies. There is a slight pause, but Utena seems rather unperturbed and continues eating, at which point the music starts glitching. This is obviously a reaction Anthy is not accustomed to, and she seems rather awkward and unsure what to do next, as the glitching intensifies. Utena mentions poisoning Anthy's tea, which Anthy then says is delicious.

This gives me a couple of different ideas:
-Utena has had it with Anthy's passive-agressive threats and states openly what other meant to be an implied threat. This doesn't make much sense in context of the next scene and the next few episodes.

-The fact that Utena happily munches the cookies after that implied threat shocks Anthy to such an extent her world starts acting weird. It's not a reaction she expected and if we consider the theory that the duels are cyclical, not one she is used to. Take for example the aforementioned Kanae - even without mentioning poison, Kanae would consider Anthy's every action dodgy, and an even subtler implication would have her throwing accusations and calling Anthy a witch, not to mention that she probably wouldn't ingest anything made by Anthy anyway. Indeed, most characters would act this way. Even her brother is weary of her.
But Utena then eats the cookies anyway. The whole tea poisoning remark might be Utena's way of telling Anthy that they are the same, that she is ready to accept Anthy the way she is and 'If you're a monster, then I'll be a monster too'. Someone is finally accepting her as an equal in a relationship, a new territory.
Cue Anthy's world shaking up, and because she realized she genuinely cares for Utena, the next scene is her trying to commit suicide, since she knows what's in store for Utena next and blames herself for it.

Also, the mentioning of cantarella might be a warning to Utena to back off before it's too late, as in she's trying to scare and draw Utena away with her scary scary witch persona, because again, she knows what's in store, cares for Utena and doesn't see herself worthy of fighting for. Utena has none of it, of course.

WHOA you just blew my mind, kind ser
(Note to self: do not, even unknowingly, assume SKU is like any other shojo anime)

And that convo sounds eerily similar in some aspects to the conversations between Saionji and Touga, in which case OMG THE SPINNER!

I'd still argue that Anthy is shocked by this, since this makes her and Utena equal, and that is after a supposed eternity of thinking herself a lesser, or at least fundamentally different being, than anyone else.
She's more or less : 'If you're not a prince, than WTF M8?! What does that make us then? Normal girls??? No way!'

(I'll need a while to process this fully)

Hmmm.

And I look at the Anthy suicide attempt scene from a much different perspective with far less symbolism.

Sweetgm2 wrote:

Oh and in Nanami's first Akio Arc Duel Episode, Her Tragedy, when Anthy is spoon-feeding Akio shaved ice. Most specifically, in the original Japanese when she says -
Anthy: Oniisama, the inside of your mouth is all blue.

I'm pretty sure this is literal. Shaved ace is known to dye one's mouth, especially the blue kind.

YamPuff wrote:

]I just went and re-watched the scene myself. The skipping music actually gave me chills. I never noticed it before!

It's the sound of a broken vinyl record. Stereotypically you give it a slight bump to get it moving forward again.

I always assumed that Utena was signalling to Anthy that she could not win. Utena was taking Akio away from her.  She was not even going to give Anthy the satisfaction of believing that she either feared or hated her but would triumph so utterly that she could have Anthy over for tea ten years later.  Total victory. No Prince, no Princess. Just victory. Anthy can go take a flying leap.

Sweetgm2 wrote:
Then what's the meaning of Akio biting a flower petal off a rose or when he was surrounded by cacti

It is not a rose, but a poppy! Commonly used as a symbol for death, sleep, and war, and literately as a opium!

They are used earlier in the when Akio an Utena go for a walk in what seems to be a field of poppies.

Akio goes on to wax on the historical symbolism of the flower, calling it the "Gubijin flower". From what I found here http://wkdkigodatabase03.blogspot.com/2 … -hana.html the Gubijin flower is a corn poppy or feild poppy.
He goes on to say "There's a legend that they grew on the spot where Gubijin, who was loved by Kouu, was buried long ago. Because of that, in the language of flowers..."
If only I could find a copy of the tale he is mentioning, it might have a great clue. Perhaps he is trying to allude to something romantic (is this Utena would think he means?) or murder and betrayal. I guess it is irrelevant which right now. We as watchers never do get to hear his meaning of the poppy. First he pauses mid sentence to focus on Utena and later he is interrupted by cut to another photo section with Touga, so we are left on our own to figure out what he and the show was meaning. I don't think he would tell us though. Before we leave to watch Akio fondle his invisible nipples, we see that the field is not a field at all, but a maze!

A maze leading to his car and hiding it. So, these poppies lead to his car and his ultimate goals.

This idea of the poppies being connected to Akio's manipulation and control has been talked about before in the Visual Wackery thread, if you want to see more. http://forums.ohtori.nu/viewtopic.php?pid=258368
There is thoughts on the cacti too there!

When it comes to the poppy scene - I agree it's important that poppies are used to make opium. To me, this scene is about Akio blurring Utena's judgement.

I also feel that biting a flower is highly correlated to Tokiko's words: you must cast the flowers to bear the fruits. So, in this context, Akio wants to use sex as a rite of passage for Utena. He wants to destroy, eat her innocence. Flowers often symbolise virginity, right?

And this discussion about Anthy's suicide attempt also made me think, especially this part:

satyreyes wrote:

If you view it that way, Anthy's suicide attempt in the next scene takes on different overtones, eh?    It's not just about Anthy trying to protect Utena.  It's about Anthy's disappointment that Utena isn't acting like a prince after all, and her self-hatred over intentionally making the noble Utena into a mean creature "like the Rose Bride."

So... it may look as if Anthy was deliberately trying to push Utena back into her princehood, showing that she's a damsel in distress. She does that to use Utena's sense of responsibility to prevent her from escaping. At the beginning I thought that Anthy was really too frustrated to go on. I don't think about it this way anymore because she was waiting for Utena to show up to jump, so now it seems staged to me.

Utena was angry at Anthy while saving her, but later on she talked to her in a very calm way, as if she was feeling guilty of her suicide attempt. I suppose Anthy was punishing both of them. It looks like they were both passive-agressive towards each other at this point.

I don't know if this is irrelevant, but this is kind of a rushed essay that I did as practice for one of my pre-HSC tests. I'm 17 and in year 12. Again, I'm really sorry if this is in the wrong thread, but I don't really post things so I am kind of unsure. Anyway, I hope it's not too tedious and makes a bit of sense.
Here goes nothing...

Discoveries can be intensely meaningful as they can lead us to new worlds and stimulate new ideas. The ways in which discoveries are understood and represented are dependent on the individual who experiences them. Kunihiko Ikuhara’s animation ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’ explores the role of exploration and discoveries in stimulating new perspectives and ideas. Kunihiko Ikuhara’s ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’  explores and conveys the composers belief that discoveries are provocative of new ideas and values, changing the way we perceive others, events and self.
Discoveries can lead us to new worlds and cause us to question the validity of predetermined ideas. This is explored throughout Kunihiko Ikuhara’s animation ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’, which demonstrates how the process of discovering can offer new understandings and renewed perceptions of ourselves and others. Ikuhara examines this shift in perspective by conveying the role discovery has in allowing one to decide what is truth and illusion. Ikuhara does this through the employment of a variety of rich textual features, such as using fairy-tale designs throughout ‘Utena’. This is demonstrated through the constant referencing to “the castle where eternity dwells”. The use of a castle represents a goal, dreams and fantasy. Castles often hold treasure or an imprisoned person and is inhabited by an evil person who must be overcome in order to obtain the treasure or release the imprisoned, which depicts the treasure of mysterious knowledge or spiritual attainment. This is reflected in the way that Dios, the Spanish name for God, is sealed inside the castle. The fact that the castle where eternity dwells is upside-down represents the unattainability of the idealised illusionary treasures inside. The use of an imaginary castle as an idealised goal causes us to challenge perceptions of what is truth and illusion. The motif of illusions is further strongly conveyed by Ikuhara in ‘Utena’ through the symbol of the planetarium projector. As all of the focal duels in the series occur as an apparent catalyst for “revolution”, the planetarium projector is a strong symbol of deception in ‘Utena’, being a tool utilised by Akio to manipulate those around him. This is shown through Akio’s statement; “With this projector, I can project fairy tale like illusions for the naïve people who wish eternity really exists”. The discovery that all around her was merely a projection created by Akio, who is the antithesis of her idealised prince Dios, drastically shapes the way in which she not only perceives Akio and Dios, but the concept of a being prince altogether. In response to her realisation of reality, Utena desperately resists any association with herself as a “Princess”. Utena’s statement that she will “be a prince” causes the false projection of the grave of Dios to shatter. It is this provoked challenge of her previous ideas surrounding her “prince” that in turn causes the castle where eternity dwells to dim, falling and crumbling. The destruction of previous goals and values represent her own unveiling of truth and a change in the way Utena then perceives reality. Through the use of Greek choruses, Ikuhara explores how discoveries can provide new understandings and renewed perceptions of ourselves and others. The conveyance of information through the shadow girl’s plays provides questionability towards the information and scenarios provided, causing the audience to constantly reassess their own views of reality and impressions. Throughout Ikuhara’s ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’, swords are used as a means of exploring the journey to uncover truth and reality. Throughout the text, swords are used as a tool to cut through ignorance and reach truth. Swords represent the penetrating power of the intellect, being used to literally slice through deception. The use of swords as means of reaching actually reinstates Ikuhara’s belief that discoveries lead us to reassess and challenge preconceived notions and values. Kunihiko Ikuhara’s animation series ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’ explores the role of exploration and discoveries in stimulating new perspectives and ideas.

In conclusion, discoveries stimulate new ideas, causing us to revaluate previous notions and perceptions of events, others and self. Kunihiko Ikuhara’s animation ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’ examines and expresses the role that discoveries hold in inspiring new perspectives of values and ideas. Kunihiko Ikuhara’s ‘Revolutionary Girl Utena’ explores the fact that discoveries are provocative of new thoughts, changing the way we observe and respond to others, events and self.

Last edited by Eldog123 (12-13-2015 01:07:37 AM)