Kashira wrote:

***I couldn't find this topic, but I may have been searching for the wrong keywords***

I was watching the Movie last night, and It had gotten up to the elevator scene. My sister came into deliver a message, and I didn't notice her. After Touga ...swims off she said "So was he not real or what?" I started trying to explain it and I told her without really thinking about it, that there was a tv series that was made first and handed her the first DVD.

Now my sister is going to watch Utena ... my 13 year old sister is going to watch Utena. I remember that I refused to let her watch Elfen Lied, the narative contains many of the same themes as Utena (albeit in a more graphic fashion.)

I know she'll miss much of the symbolism and such ... well I missed most of it at first. But that well ... there's Aiko.

How young is too young to watch Utena?

I was in her age when I saw Utena, and you all see what happened!

Ok, now I'm serious - I just agree with Archambeau, age is just a number.

I first saw it when I was 22.

Not actually knowing her, I'd guess that most of what  your sister will get is just the story as told at face value. Most of the symbolism/themes that the show does go into will probably wash over her. Some mildly uncomfortable stuff is still around to be seen at face value, sure. But not too much, and certainly nothing that will permanantly traumatize her.

As a show it lacks much graphic violence, abuse, sexuality, and other such things (even though it's completely full of them at the same time, in an implied nongraphic way). The most graphic stuff is what.... Anthy being slapped, Touga and Akio lying together with their shirts off, ... stuff like that. If the series didn't do such a good job with the way it laid things out and made use of symbolism (both in specific scenes like this, and in a broader thematic context), it would probably be much more boring. If your sister is able to understand the implied symbolism on her own, well, she's probably old enough to deal with it. If she just misses out on all of the implied things because she's too young, then no harm will be done either.

Last edited by Valeli (09-06-2007 02:43:39 PM)

I wouldn't be surprised if it had been aimed at mid-teens originally, yeah.

... but it really does have so much artistic/literary merit (I feel) that would pass over most younger viewers. A lot of it passed over my head too, the first time I saw it, and I had to go rewatch stuff to try and figure it out... and... maybe I'm wrong...  but I don't think i'm all that dumb I've watched it a few times now, and there's still stuff I can get from it. I got a neat idea for an essay I can write about it, actually, so I want to rewatch it with those specific themes in mind whenever I get the time for that.

The neatest thing about SKU is how it can speak to you, I think, almost no matter who you are because a lot of it is very subjective (what's the revolution? what's /your/ revolution? what's temptation? what dreams are worth suffering for?) A thirteen year old girl or someone in the middle of a successful career in corporate finance can look at the series, and look at those questions, and will almost certainly come to different conclusions based on what they've been through. It totally functions as a rather superficial story of a girl questioning gender roles, sticking to her principles, and overcoming doubt over a series of duels until a somewhat "wtf" ending (which is, again, really open to interpretation).

Sooo... I don't think it would be all that traumatic to children unable to deal with its more adult themes and subtext, because those children probably wouldn't read those themes and subtext into it - most of the time. Would they?

Last edited by Valeli (09-06-2007 08:27:05 PM)

Kashira wrote:

Valeli wrote:

Touga and Akio lying together with their shirts off

Now that she'll love, she is a bigger yaoi fan than I am (romance yaoi not yaoi-porn) ...unfortunately she might be too busy being a fangirl to notice the rest of the show... or is that fortunately?

Yaoi fans never like Akio and Touga. I don't get it, they're thrown a freebie and ignore it. (I find it somewhat amusing that fans of men having sex would so lack a taste for men having sex because it's a fun powerplay. What's more masculine than sex completely devoid of love/attachment, huh?)

Kashira wrote:

Anthy/Aiko thing

Man did that typo confuse me in the first post. You mean Akio! Unless there's a scene I didn't catch with hot hot Anthy and Nanami minion action.

But as for the sis, everyone's covered it, really. If you think she's mature enough to handle what IS made obvious, then go for it. I saw SKU I think around 14, 15, so the sex wasn't lost at all on me. Still, I think there's something to be said of seeing it young, because in that way, the series could be so layered. There's that first impression, and what she'll learn about it over time as she sees it from more and more mature perspectives. Little is done outright in SKU, so the potential for it to grow up with you is great. I'd say if you're considering it at all, she's probably capable of handling it. And if not, the first arc serves a good purpose of gauging reactions. If that arc puts her on edge, maybe hold on to the next one for a while.

maybe 14 or something, most of them act mature enough.

Kashira wrote:

***I couldn't find this topic, but I may have been searching for the wrong keywords***

I was watching the Movie last night, and It had gotten up to the elevator scene. My sister came into deliver a message, and I didn't notice her. After Touga ...swims off she said "So was he not real or what?" I started trying to explain it and I told her without really thinking about it, that there was a tv series that was made first and handed her the first DVD.

Now my sister is going to watch Utena ... my 13 year old sister is going to watch Utena. I remember that I refused to let her watch Elfen Lied, the narative contains many of the same themes as Utena (albeit in a more graphic fashion.)

I know she'll miss much of the symbolism and such ... well I missed most of it at first. But that well ... there's Aiko.

How young is too young to watch Utena?

Hey, Kozue, Miki, and Nanami are 13

Hopefully your sister doesn't take where she figures out Anthy and Akio are sleeping together like Nanami did, though.

(omg elevator~!)

Children are actually very capable of handling strong, "adult" themes.  The problem comes in when adults mystify and hide it because they insultingly  think children are lesser people.

Resurrecting, because I have questions.

Does the fandom/anime-culture-in-general make aspects of Utena more adult in our memory? Is it worth once in awhile reiterating, in our own heads, that SKU was aimed, commercially, at kids? The ideas of incest, seduction from a teacher, betrayal from close friends, futile crushes, and body stuff can be taken maturely, but as presented in the TV show, they seem, to me, presented for formative years and about, natch, formative years.

I'm not sure a twelve year old sees with the same sexual or social depth of field as, say, a twenty-five year does. The content taken in by a viewer is relative to their capacity, not the total potential content of what they're viewing, yeah?

Prompted by an irate mom, who watches enough anime herself and doesn't mind her teenage son watching Ninja Scroll, losing it over my nieces sharing Utena and Ouran with her early double digits daughter.

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

Resurrecting, because I have questions.
Is it worth once in awhile reiterating, in our own heads, that SKU was aimed, commercially, at kids? The ideas of incest, seduction from a teacher, betrayal from close friends, futile crushes, and body stuff can be taken maturely, but as presented in the TV show, they seem, to me, presented for formative years and about, natch, formative years.

To understand this, we must understand one thing first: the Japanese kids anime shown on TV are not created with issues like "trigger-free" or "safe education" in mind.   An Anime's creators care can include almost anything in their shows, so long as the contents don't violate legal issues
(by Jap regulations this means no sexual organs or pubes for kids shows, none of which are actually shown in Utena). Incest, seduction, LGBT elements are rampant in Utena (and many other kids animes) because the creators knew such elements will intrigue kids into watching a plot-heavy show, and that such elements did not violate the existing laws of the time period.

As for age for Utena . . . well, while the laws in different regions are different, different parents/guardians will also have different standards as to what constitutes 'acceptable' upbringing for their kids.  So who can really say how young is too young to watch SKU?

^Agreed, although I think it very much depends on individual maturity levels - for example, at the age of 11, "The Color Purple" was one of my favourite books, but I sure as hell wouldn't show it to my 11-year-old brother. Speaking as an actual teenager, I do think Utena resonates, even for those of us who (thankfully) can't relate in any way to the issues of incest and sexual exploitation/abuse. But yeah, as a 14-year-old, I find the show's examination of issues related to growing up, identity, repression, and social structural pressure absolutely interesting and highly relevant, and tbh, I wish more teens would, in fact, watch it.

Last edited by lunaopheliac (03-01-2014 07:08:33 PM)

Re; Davine.  I kind of agree with you on the bit about taboo concepts in kids anime have to be presented in an understated way for legal purpose (graphic sex/violence are not allowed in Japanese kids show).  Still, I'm pretty sure that both BePapas and studio execs know that the precocious-on-average Japanese kids WILL recognize most of the taboo concepts when watching SKU, and that they're counting on the 'taboo' to lure the kids into following its brain-twister plot.

Some examples (out of many):

I don't think any Japanese kid above the mental age of six will misinterpret it as a foot rub scene.


Same with this scene. 


And the creators know the kids will know why Utena is upset by this, or they would've failed to deliver a coherent plot to their viewers.




And this scene in EP 38

Utena:  That's not it. This is the room where you and Anthy always...
Akio:  Always...?
Akio:  Oh, is that what you're upset about?
Akio:  Am I really doing something that despicable?
Akio:  And even if I am, you're the same as me.
Utena:  What're you talking about?
Akio:  I doubt you've forgotten.
Akio:  Behold, the memory of the two of us.
Akio:  I have a fiancee, but that didn't stop you.
Akio:  Isn't that a sin?
Utena:  That's not fair.
Akio:  Unfair? Isn't it unfair to turn your eyes from the truth and then criticize others?
Akio:  Isn't it UNFAIR to pretend that your conscience is clear and that YOU'RE the one in the right?

makes SKU's incest + man-stealing/adultery plot clear as day to any kid or adult with a working mind.

Atropos wrote:

^ Exactly. The kids will get that there's something wrong and creepy going on—possibly related to this whole "sex" thing they've heard so much about—but they don't understand specifically what it means.

Yep, they'll miss the deeper nuances behind the "sex" thing.  In the examples I've listed, the kiddie viewers will know only that the "sex" thing is happening in a "bad" way between brother and sister, between man and mother-in-law, and between a 'good' girl and some future-husband of another girl.  So they'll know there is something taboo going on without fully understanding the intricacies behind the taboo.

Edited to add: To phrase it better, the average Japanese kid should recognize most of the taboo concepts (incest, adultery at least) in the plot, but may not understand the full complexity involved within the taboo elements.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (03-04-2014 05:04:05 PM)