Yasha wrote:

one would expect to see a more traditional, less... err, exuberant.... position for anal sex

Perhaps you could say it's...irrational exuberance?

That Touga's canon bisexual, and enjoys the sex he has with Akio, IMO makes it somehow worse. He can't write Akio off entirely as a miserable thing he absolutely has to force himself to give into and/or communicate with. No matter how much he hates Akio, no matter how aware he is that Akio's not going to give him what he wants, he's gotta at least admit the sex is good.

Which sounds like a lot of relationships, except in this case neither of them of deluded about it.

As for Saionji, I would definitely say any sexual interest he has in Touga is a mixed bag. On one hand, how could he not want to literally stick it to Touga after all these years? On the other, Saionji's so starved for intimacy and closeness, that I could see him wanting to sleep with Touga because he'd assume (perhaps more rightly than Touga realizes), that that's the only medium for intimacy that Touga will understand and feel. Saionji would be flexible that way, strange to say of an abusive character like him, but I think he'd be very open to just about any form of intimacy, if only he'd have a consenting partner.

As it stands, the poor guy is trying to beat it out of people and failing.

We just don't have a lot of canon info on why Sainji is a dick imnsho. Let's review.
We know he was best childhood friends with Touga and that they shared a "traumatic coffin experience". We also know that Touga isn't really someone you want as a best friend, what with his manipulation and sexulization (look Ma! new word!) of every situation.
We know that Saionji is, shall we say, bitter and twisted about friendship existing at all. *scratches head and wonders whose fault that could be*
We know that Saionji likes to hit the rose bride. He likes to hit her a lot.
He also seems to be besotted with her.
He also turns into a crazy stalker.
He also has crazy pinpoint eyes-of-crack.
He also has a violent temper.
He also does stupid things, like trying to stab Utena over Anthy, and stabbing Touga instead in a fit of violent temper.
He also likes to flash looks of deep pain/loathing at Touga in key moments, that could be taken as key "why won't you fuck me? bastard!" looks, or "but we were meant to be best friends forever, bastard!" looks.

In the movie (not that it matters so much) he's presented as a raving lunatic (with very hot flowy hair. I love his movie hair). And that's without the justifying childhood-of-pain that movie Touga is suddenly graced with.

So I would say that it's no wonder that fans of Saionji have been working overtime on what exactly could have happened to him in the past to screw him up so roundly. It's interesting that often fans don't feel so bad for slapped-Anthy for instance, instead projecting blame onto her (as is common to do to victims *gasp*. Oh look, she made him slap her. The bitch) and searching for justifications for poor Saionji. Not that I don't agree he really is poor Saionji, I just sometimes wonder what happened to equality of pain and all that. There's no justification for hitting someone, although there may be contributing factors. And of course it brings up the possibility that Saionji himself was physically abused.

But back to canon. Since the anime only gives the information of the betrayal of friendship, the question becomes: is that really enough? Was that all that it took to send Saionji over the edge and make him a physically abusive victor/boyfriend?
Is it more that he had this potential in him (because of his pain), and lashed out when at last he was in a situation of power (victor), and with someone passive aggressive like Anthy who is used to playing the victim role (because of the sexual/physical/emotional abuse she has undergone), so was able to be the "bad" love object that should be punished, that Saionji needed? Has anyone followed that extra-long sentence with me?

Summary: Saionji is a dick because he used to believe in friendship and his best friend turned out to be his worst enemy. Saionji is an out of control dick who beats on women and loses his temper easily because he had ideals and they crumbled on top of him (like a castle falling out of the sky, imagine that). Saionji is a dick because he wants love of some kind (any kind) that is eternal, and all he gets is tastes of love that are cruelly snatched away. His dick-like behavior is about trying to force that eternal kind of love to be his own.

Actually, regarding the hairpin, I suspect that he actually thought it was lame. It was a hell of a gesture on his part, but my guess is that he considered it a poor substitute for a real gift, something that a child might give. It's just hard for me to imagine that he went from thoughtful guy to big asshole THAT fast...granted, once he was away from Wakaba, he forgot all about her, which is quite dickish, but I think he might have been sincere when he said he would get her something better. Which makes him a context-based dick.

Well, I can join you in the Touga hate, but I'm afraid I have a soft spot for McWiggers.

Quite right, Wakaba would probably rather have THAT pin than one made of gold. But Saionjis is not exactly good at understanding people's feelings...

EDIT: whoops

Last edited by Stormcrow (11-28-2008 05:04:25 PM)

Great analysis rhyaniwyn, I love it.

Can't agree more!