This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top11-06-2010 09:10:00 AM

CoffinBreaker
Rose Bride
From: Here and Now
Registered: 10-28-2010
Posts: 117

This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I was wondering if anybody else noticed that throughout the entire site, "Duelist" is spelled wrong...? (Duellist being incorrect...)


You don't need to understand Revolutionary Girl Utena to understand it.

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#2 | Back to Top11-06-2010 09:30:02 AM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/duellist

It's really one of those words you get to choose your spelling for. emot-keke


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#3 | Back to Top11-06-2010 10:19:45 AM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Yes.  I have noticed that since a long time ago.  I was not aware that 'duellist,' however, could also be considered correct.  You learn something new.

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#4 | Back to Top11-06-2010 11:12:04 AM

CoffinBreaker
Rose Bride
From: Here and Now
Registered: 10-28-2010
Posts: 117

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

It's not like it actually matters, I just grapple with my need to correct every misspelled word I see. Now I learned something new! emot-dance


You don't need to understand Revolutionary Girl Utena to understand it.

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#5 | Back to Top11-06-2010 02:02:39 PM

Clarice
Well hello, Clarice...
From: New Zealand
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 3102
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Ha ha, yeah, I always wince when I see "duelist" because I was taught to spell with two ls -- but with that said, whenever I read something written with American spelling I have to resist the urge to correct it. Because it's correct either way. Although these days I always have Jemaine in the back of my head narrating the thought with: It doesn't matter what country someone's from, or what they look like, or the color of their skin. It doesn't matter what they smell like, or that they spell words slightly differently...some would say, more correctly. emot-rofl

Last edited by Clarice (11-06-2010 02:04:20 PM)


It takes forty-seven New Zealanders eight months to make just one batch of 42 Below Vodka. ...luckily, that leaves one of us free to be Prime Minister.

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#6 | Back to Top11-06-2010 06:17:05 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Ditto Clarice. Being from Europe means that you'll almost certainly get educated with British English, and that grand majority of the English-speakers you meet are going to be British as well, so the British spelling really tends to stick, but on the other hand you see all the American movies, and assume, if not American accent, then at least American vocabulary.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

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#7 | Back to Top11-06-2010 06:39:04 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

When we first implemented titles, I pushed hard for "Duelist;" that's how I learned to spell it, and it looks much more elegant!  Believe me, misspellings do not stand on my watch.  But it turned out there was no single right answer, and I've stopped noticing. emot-smile

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#8 | Back to Top11-06-2010 07:17:24 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I prefer the double-L myself. emot-biggrin  Same for the word traveller.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (11-06-2010 07:18:06 PM)


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#9 | Back to Top11-06-2010 08:32:04 PM

mercurynin
Flourishing Verderer
From: Honolulu, HI
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 638

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I get the feeling that, if I were still a copy editor, and if the word were to show up in a newspaper article, I'd be forced by some obscure rule to insist on the single-L spelling.  Personally, I don't mind either spelling.


You know our hearts beat time out very slowly.  You know our hearts beat time -- they are waiting for something that'll never arrive.

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#10 | Back to Top11-06-2010 11:17:40 PM

Tenjou_sailorsaturn
Someday Shiner
From: Floating Castle
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 2417
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Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

This thread reminds me of my spellings--color & colour, odor & odour and otherwise similar. I was taught British English all through my school, and when I first joined here, I stick myself to British English, now, however, I've changed (but only in this forum) my spelling to American English. There are two reasons: first, I become pretty lazy in typing, even for one more letter; second, most fellow members are American, so I think it might be better to communicate through American English. At the very least, I don't really care whether I'm reading British or American English now, I simply find them no difference to my understanding the thoughts.


生命是奇蹟,但是為什麼生活是痛苦的?

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#11 | Back to Top11-07-2010 02:30:20 AM

Absolute Apocalypse
Saionji Slapper
Registered: 08-24-2010
Posts: 25

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Cool story mate, i mean, bro.


"Challenging the sword of dios with a simple bamboo practice sword?" etc-saiowank

Always do things the saionji way.

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#12 | Back to Top11-07-2010 03:49:30 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I know in Australia, duellist and traveller are spelt with two Ls.

Also I somethings have to remind myself that in America, they spell words like metre, litre and centre as meter, liter and center instead.

But concerning the meter vs metre, we Aussies use metre as a unit of measurement and meter as a device that measures things eg: a thermometer, speedometer or even a gas meter.

Also in Australia, center would be a synonym for middle. (He stood in the center of the circle.) while centre would be the word used to describe a gathering place eg: Arts Centre or shopping centre.

Finally labour vs Labor, labour is work people do while Labor is the Australian Labour Party (ALP), the equivient of the American Democrat Party.

I do wonder if this subject should really be in the General Dissection instead.

Last edited by Tamago (11-07-2010 04:12:52 PM)

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#13 | Back to Top11-07-2010 07:19:45 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Tamago wrote:

Also I somethings have to remind myself that in America, they spell words like metre, litre and centre as meter, liter and center instead.

Actually, we do our damnedest not to use the words "meter" and "liter" at all.  emot-tongue  Talk to us about feet and gallons instead.  We'll accept "parking meter," and for some reason we'll deal with a one-liter bottle of water or a two-liter bottle of soda, but nothing else -- that's literally it.  Litreally it? emot-tongue emot-tongue emot-tongue

Tamago wrote:

Also in Australia, center would be a synonym for middle. (He stood in the center of the circle.) while centre would be the word used to describe a gathering place eg: Arts Centre or shopping centre.

I didn't know the rule was so subtle!  What about the players in that one game that you foreigners insist on calling football?  Those people who play near the middle of the pitch -- are they centers or centres?

I do wonder if this subject should really be in the General Dissection instead.

Right you are!  Fixing!

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#14 | Back to Top11-08-2010 07:53:09 PM

MissMocha
Bettie Page Princess
From: Tallahassee, Fl
Registered: 10-19-2006
Posts: 4632

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

My scorecard was docked at work once because I noted that I was sending a form for a replacement "cheque." I was pretty irritated, and called up to the dept, and pointed out that if they went to dictionary online (which is the only website our computers will access) my spelling was there and listed as correct, and that they ought to take it off, especially since they had agents notating in spanish. To be honest "check" as a form of payment does make me have to stop and think for a minute.

But for the most part, I tend to use American English, I really don't know where that one came from. :/

Last edited by MissMocha (11-08-2010 07:55:58 PM)


The first time you looked at her curves you were hooked
And the glances you took, took hold of you and demanded that you stay
And sunk in their teeth, bit your heart and released
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#15 | Back to Top11-09-2010 06:13:02 AM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

satyreyes wrote:

I didn't know the rule was so subtle!  What about the players in that one game that you foreigners insist on calling football?  Those people who play near the middle of the pitch -- are they centers or centres?

I'm not certain but I think I would go with centers on that issue.

I know that Americans refer to Gridiron as football, which is a bit odd as there is almost never any kicking involved.

When Australians think of football, they are thinking of Aussie Rules Footy, Rugby League or Rugby Union, in all cases IIRC you have to kick for any goals.

And of cause in the rest of the world, football is soccer.

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#16 | Back to Top11-09-2010 04:04:56 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

satyreyes wrote:

What about the players in that one game that you foreigners insist on calling football?

This side of the pond they joke that the American game should be called handegg. emot-wink


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#17 | Back to Top11-10-2010 02:17:59 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I heard that one of the reasons Americans like Gridiron over other types of football is that it has a lot of stops which makes it easier to order your hotdogs and drinks without worrying about missing anything important.

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#18 | Back to Top11-11-2010 09:24:23 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

And I didn't even know that Australians think "football" means "rugby."  We should just retire the word "football" permanently and replace it with "soccer," "rugby," and "handegg." emot-smile

I like the hot dog theory of American football.  Baseball also has a lot of stops, and it's both a very American game and a very traditional beer-and-hot-dogs one.  But our other big-three sport is basketball, which is more like soccer as far as its pace.  And if there's a number four sport, it's ice hockey, which is basically soccer on ice -- but that's a Canadian sport anyway.  emot-tongue

Last edited by satyreyes (11-11-2010 09:25:37 PM)

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#19 | Back to Top11-12-2010 03:43:41 PM

Tamago
God of Comedy
From: Minami Goushuu
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 14280
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

It seems to me that Australian is about half way between being American and British in how they speak or spell in general.

As for the grammar nazi-like peeves:

Getting there, their and they're mixed up, why do people have this problem with these words, its not that hard, eg: They're going to take their piles of useless crap and move it over there.

Too and to: I know the odd accident will happen, but when individuals never seem to use to/too right, I find it too annoying.

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#20 | Back to Top11-21-2010 08:33:31 AM

Bluesky
Chpn Dlst
From: Your window
Registered: 10-25-2008
Posts: 1939
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I would've thought 'duelist'was right, if only because you have the morphemes 'duel' and 'ist' sort of stuck together. Why the extra 'l'? What does it do?
...I still like 'colour' better than 'color' though, it just looks nicer.


/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

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#21 | Back to Top11-21-2010 05:53:47 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Bluesky wrote:

I would've thought 'duelist'was right, if only because you have the morphemes 'duel' and 'ist' sort of stuck together. Why the extra 'l'? What does it do?

Reflects the pronounciation better? At least I hear it as a double-consonant...


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

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#22 | Back to Top11-21-2010 11:00:56 PM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Bluesky wrote:

I would've thought 'duelist'was right, if only because you have the morphemes 'duel' and 'ist' sort of stuck together. Why the extra 'l'? What does it do?
...I still like 'colour' better than 'color' though, it just looks nicer.

Letter-doubling shenanigans happen sometimes at morpheme boundaries, where word parts get stuck together, particularly when the second morpheme starts with a vowel.  The usual suspects are -er and -est; if you retcon things, you're a "retconner," with a double N, and your fics might be the "hottest," with a double T.  For these words, the doubling happens for pronunciation reasons: How would you pronounce "retconer?"  Like "cone," right?  And "hotest" sounds wrong too.

It's possible that some people would look at "duelist" and think it should be pronounced "doo-EEL-ist."  Doubling the L certainly does prevent that.  But I think the mispronunciation is pretty unlikely.  After all, we don't double the L in "realist," and no one goes around pronouncing that word wrong.

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#23 | Back to Top02-03-2011 04:38:58 PM

BioKraze
Faceless Master
From: Yuma, Arizona (USA)
Registered: 11-26-2006
Posts: 8282

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

I like seeing discussion like this, really! It's interesting to see how far the American and British language spheres, I guess(?) extend across the world and into local flavor.

Even I'm not immune. One of the things I pride myself on is spelling things correctly (and grammar too, but bleh, nitpicking) and I still have trouble with some words. I'm born, raised and wholly educated in America, so the exposure to British spelling comes from either books or video games. There's one cult game, called UFO: Enemy Unknown in its birthplace of the UK and X-COM: UFO Defense in America. The game was developed in England, so naturally they use the UK spellings. This leads to words like colour, defence, centre, encyclopaedia, targetting and even manoeuvre! Those words are rendered color, defense, encyclopedia, targeting and maneuver here in the States.

And you know what? It took me forever to get myself to stop writing stories using those UK spellings, and even then I still trip up on words I can't be sure I remember how to spell in America! I still have to sit in place for several seconds thinking "Okay, is it manoeuvre or maneuver? Which one is my audience going to be expecting?"

I think it's just that, especially on the Internet. We write for what our audience expects, and being only human we expect our audience to be well-versed in the same dialect/spelling/what-have-you as we were taught.

Also, fun fact. I don't know if this is just the game or if all UK spellings do this, but words like exoskeleton and cardiovascular employ hyphens, so they are spelled exo-skeleton and cardio-vascular. If anybody can double-check this, I know there's one person here who'd appreciate it! emot-keke


Roses have thorns to stop those who would dare deny their right to live.
Razara's Postulate: For every lover of lesbians out there, there is an equal and opposite attraction to Dippin' Dots.

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#24 | Back to Top02-04-2011 07:07:24 PM

Bluesky
Chpn Dlst
From: Your window
Registered: 10-25-2008
Posts: 1939
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

BioKraze wrote:

Also, fun fact. I don't know if this is just the game or if all UK spellings do this, but words like exoskeleton and cardiovascular employ hyphens, so they are spelled exo-skeleton and cardio-vascular. If anybody can double-check this, I know there's one person here who'd appreciate it! emot-keke[/color]

I think that's the tradition over here, cramming the words all together without a hyphen is seen as an Americanisation by people who care about this kind of thing, but if we did that in our essays (I'm on an English degree course) I doubt the lecturers would say owt. Personally I'm not bothered about it, but it does get ugly when you have words like shell-like or de-icer being smushed into one.


/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

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#25 | Back to Top02-05-2011 08:06:13 AM

crystalwren
Dark Whisperer
From: Brisbane
Registered: 04-21-2009
Posts: 1172
Website

Re: This might be the Grammar Nazi talking, but...

Heh. I was playing a lot of hidden object games a while back, of which the vast majority are written/developed in the US. I have a bad habit of using words from the latest thing I'm reading, and it annoyed my boss of the time when I started using American words instead of the Australian equivalent, e.g faucet for tap and such. Combined with my habit of using the minor local variations from the place in NSW where I was raised, instead of the QLD equivalent. He was South African, though, with English one of a number of second languages so I think he thought I was doing it deliberately to confuse him and piss him off. I wasn't. (Much.)

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