I'd have to say good overall.

Were it not for their airings of Sailor Moon and Gundam Wing, I'm sure I'd never have become a fan of anime.  If I never became an anime fan, I'd never have found out about SKU.

If CN never showed anime back in its still relatively niche days of the late 90s/early 00s, I'm not sure how I'd have come across it or if I would have become interested in it at all. I still find great shows that I enjoy on Adult Swim that I may never otherwise have tried out.

So yeah, I think it's a good thing.  I don't need anyone else's approval to like what I like.  Anyone is free to say anime on american tv sucks because it's on american tv or whatever their rationalization is, but don't they dare tell me that I am not a 'real' anime fan just because I watch some dubbed anime on american tv that may happen to be popular.

If someone discovers some anime they like on CN and are serious about making it a hobby, they'll expand their horizons on their own at their own pace.  It's the ones that never leave their comfort zone that are denying themselves the experience of all the medium has to offer.


Asking if CN is good or bad for anime is like asking if TCM is good or bad for classic movies.  Anime is a medium, not a genre.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (04-02-2007 07:21:09 PM)

Imaginary Bad Bug wrote:

I'd have to say good overall.

Were it not for their airings of Sailor Moon and Gundam Wing, I'm sure I'd never have become a fan of anime.  If I never became an anime fan, I'd never have found out about SKU.

If CN never showed anime back in its still relatively niche days of the late 90s/early 00s, I'm not sure how I'd have come across it or if I would have become interested in it at all. I still find great shows that I enjoy on Adult Swim that I may never otherwise have tried out.

So yeah, I think it's a good thing.  I don't need anyone else's approval to like what I like.  Anyone is free to say anime on american tv sucks because it's on american tv or whatever their rationalization is, but don't they dare tell me that I am not a 'real' anime fan just because I watch some dubbed anime on american tv that may happen to be popular.

If someone discovers some anime they like on CN and are serious about making it a hobby, they'll expand their horizons on their own at their own pace.  It's the ones that never leave their comfort zone that are denying themselves the experience of all the medium has to offer.


Asking if CN is good or bad for anime is like asking if TCM is good or bad for classic movies.  Anime is a medium, not a genre.

True , I stand corrected
It has been good OVERALL. I'm probably thinking about the current state of toonami (minus Prince of Tennis and Mar, two shows I like..........sue me!) which I think is sad (can you say Bobobobb whahtever the heck it is......WHAT A WASTE, IMO ) Toonami got me back into Anime (after Sci-fi stopped showing it)

My experience is EXACTLY SIMILAR to yours, (I loved BSSM ,GW and my beloved Samurai Troopers/Ronin Warriors on toonami back in the day.......I'm gettin' old)If it were'nt for Toonami (and for that matter Pokemon, yes I wuz a pokemaniac back then, too, Hey, back then it was still slim pickens.) I would not be the fan I am today either.  I also found my way to Animerica and Animerica Extra magazine, home to two of my all-time faves, Fushigi Yuugi and
of course, SKU, and eventually to Newtype and other magazines.


If someone discovers some anime they like on CN and are serious about making it a hobby, they'll expand their horizons on their own at their own pace.  It's the ones that never leave their comfort zone that are denying themselves the experience of all the medium has to offer.

I could'nt have said it better myself, End of story.

Last edited by conner (04-04-2007 05:48:14 PM)

I miss watching Sailor Moon and Gundam Wing  I think I miss the utter fandom associated with it. Everyday after school, you could find me perched in front of TV watching it. So, I'm biased I think CN is good for anime. I mean you sort of need a popular media format to get counter-culture interests like Anime into mainstream or avenues like middle america. This is great, because when I was growing up (back in  my day...) I had to special order everything, and liking or being into anime was financially difficult, if I wanted Tylor or Sailor Moon OAV's I was shelling out good flippin' alliowance money. But as I watch my younger brothers grow up, anime is so into pop culture now, that it's easy to access and easy to consume. As far as new Toonami goes, it could stand for improvement. The way I see it, Nickelodeon is competing with CN, because CN was the first to embrace anime, and Nickelodeon boarded the wagon after noticing how lucrative it is.

YamPuff wrote:

Its good of course; they give anime to the masses. Who cares if the dubs are sub-par or censored

I don't,  and here's a secret, I watch some shows with the sound off.
, I'm not going to go all elitest and say they should have never been made. The average person wants something dubbed.

Actually, being an English-speaking person, I prefer dubs myself (to process a story into my mind faster than subs)

I love Adult Swim and Cartoon Network in general, the non-anime programs are good, and the ability to get people into anime is a plus. 
But, I'm highly bias, I've met and hung out with Tom (one of the main guys of Adult Swim,) so in my mind, they can do no wrong.  He's so charismatic and nice, and really wears a suit well!  (Hehe, Gio would love him)
It's nice being able to turn on the TV and get anime, no matter how bad the dubbs are, but I get frustrated with people who are unwilling to give shows that are obnoxious with dubbs a chance with their subtitled counterparts.
Example:  I hate, absolutely hate Naruto dubbed, but I'm rather fond of it's subtitled counterpart

Last edited by Iris (04-05-2007 07:12:00 PM)

First off, I'm glad this thread was started. I really respect Cartoon Network. I really do. Sure, it's not the same as it was before but I just love it. I immediately dug out my old issue of Animerica. This was just before Adult Swim started:

Animerica August/Setember 2001 (pg 8)
"As of September, Cartoon Network will be officially not just for kids anymore. The network is launching a new midnight programming block called "Adult Swim" for a target audience of 18 to 34-year-olds ...

The first anime series to be signed up for this new block is Cowboy Bebop, the hypercool sci-fi series that was notable for featuring sever episodes that were considered too racy to air in Japan, never mind in America. But [t]he network does seem to have taken this kind of issue into account - Adult Swim shows will carry ratings of TV-PG and TV-14, will only be promoted of Cartoon Network late at night, and will carry parental advisory warnings.

"Animation has never been an art that was solely geared toward kids," said Mike Lazzo, senior vice president of programming and production for Cartoon Network. "... we've created a group of shows that we think will become appointment viewing for fans of smart, funny television."

It just pleases me that the mission of Cartoon Network is to promote all types of cartoons to the public whether it be adult or child. It just comes to show that this is a channel that appreciates the variety of animation whether it be American or Japanese.

Cowboy Bebop and Fullmetal Alchemist have excellent dubs.  Samurai Champloo is also good.  Even Hamtaro was dubbed well.

I think the idea that every single dub job is a hacked up and rewritten piece of garbage has long passed.  Maybe in the early days when nobody knew who the audience for anime was, but not anymore. The only possible remaining exception might be the kid-oriented action fare.  Though not being in that audience, I can't say.

Bad acting is one thing, but unless someone can speak and understand Japanese fluently then they have no business saying that the translated version is 'inaccurate'.  If you want to rip an english version, look at how Nelvana butchered Cardcaptor Sakura.  That is worthy of the hatred of a thousand suns.

And to Hiraku's point, off the top of my head, Adult Swim aired Witch Hunter Robin, Paranoia Agent, and FLCL completely untouched.  The only change to FLCL was a mosaic in episode six was enlarged a little, but it was already there to begin with.  The only addition I might make to your point is that DVD presentation and TV presentation can differ.  Just because something is edited for TV (what isn't these days? Anime or otherwise) doesn't mean that it is on the DVD release.  Oh yeah, Adult Swim also aired Evangelion pretty much unedited.

And this coming from someone who watches 90% of their anime subtitled.  And the reason I do so is in the interest of culture.  I watch a French movie in French, so I choose to watch a Japanese TV series in Japanese.  But I fully acknowledge the many excellent dubs out there.

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (04-07-2007 06:49:52 AM)

Iris wrote:

I love Adult Swim and Cartoon Network in general, the non-anime programs are good, and the ability to get people into anime is a plus. 
But, I'm highly bias, I've met and hung out with Tom (one of the main guys of Adult Swim,) so in my mind, they can do no wrong.  He's so charismatic and nice, and really wears a suit well!  (Hehe, Gio would love him)
It's nice being able to turn on the TV and get anime, no matter how bad the dubbs are, but I get frustrated with people who are unwilling to give shows that are obnoxious with dubbs a chance with their subtitled counterparts.
Example:  I hate, absolutely hate Naruto dubbed, but I'm rather fond of it's subtitled counterpart

I have no real qualms about Adult Swim or CN and I think it has been the greatest force for bringing anime to the masses, They have the highest standards for their anime choices.

From Rae:
It just pleases me that the mission of Cartoon Network is to promote all types of cartoons to the public whether it be adult or child. It just comes to show that this is a channel that appreciates the variety of animation whether it be American or Japanese.


I agree with that wholeheartedly, I love 85% of the show on the whole lineup but........

Sure, it's not the same as it was before but I just love it.

Hmmmm.......................... Tonight (as of the time of this writing)
Toonami schedule
First Hour
New Yugioh GX (uhhhhhhhh)
classic  DBZ (uuuuuuughhhhhhhhh!)
and then.......................
3 straight Hours of NARUTO........believe it!  (Oy Vey, IMO)

let's just say I'm glad I'm going out with friends tonight.


But seriously, Rae,I can't agree with you there 100% I think CN has slipped noticeably in all of it's regions ( traditional ,(there are no  bad shows, my problem is that there's a lack of variety nowadays) toonami (needs a little work), AS/Anime (needs more shows like Blood and Bleach and less like Eureka7) and AS/ Comedy (Love Boondocks, Robot Chicken, and the Aquateens, and the Fox shows add to the flavor, but let's just say I'm not too big on Tim and Eric or whatever there names are)
most of the 15% of the shows that I dislike are among the newest kids on the block. (like Tim and Eric)
I don't watch toonami and  like I used to (and this is JUST in the past year) and I find myself DVRing the shows I do like on the block (namely the 2 aforementioned Mar and PoT and for that matter Bleach and Blood on AS) and I am getting more and more of my anime fix from Netflix more often, sure it's takes time, but well worth it IMO.)

Last edited by conner (04-07-2007 01:40:50 PM)

Isn't Toonami's primary audience now 10 year old boys who want action-action-action! ?   Maybe that's the exact lineup that they want... :shrug:


And then there's Miguzi.  I'm not quite sure what the target is there (I haven't checked that lineup in months), but it seemed to resemble the old Toonami that I and others in my 'anime generation' were 'brought up' on more than the current Toonami.

Ah, Toonami Midnight Run... those were the days...

RainbowRoseQueen wrote:

Wow, its funny how I can LOVE and at the same time HATE the same channel.

Because you love and hate diferent part of it, aimed at a diferent public with probably diferent people at charge of the programing.

conner wrote:

IBB:
You probably need to look at it more closely. Seriously
I have to disagree with you 1000%, IMO it looks more a lighter version of the "new" Toonami. I have tapes of some of the old toonami shows complete with ads, etc. Looking back and studying them today. Miguzi looks nothing like the  original, authentic, real,"old" Toonami.  IMO Miguzi originally was supposed to be a sort of Anti-toonami format for CN (to combat Nick, (with no anime, just Totally Spies, Code Lyoko and the New Ninja Turtles ) but in recent years the anime has seeped back in with Naruto (vomit) and YGOGX (double vomit!) )the Anime may have returned but it's nothing like the old toonami.

This would explain why I haven't paid the least bit of attention to it recently.  That, and it airs while I am at work.   (Also, I wasn't defending Miguzi per se, but just noting the impression that I got of it.)


As to old-school Toonami... I'm watching Tenchi Muyo (the original OVA) again.  It's a classic.  Hard to believe that it's about 15 years old!

Last edited by Imaginary Bad Bug (04-09-2007 07:07:20 PM)

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

Something like Naruto is going to sell, well.  Those sorts of shows sell well.  For the same reason Dragon Ball Z could keep going forever.  For the same reason Days of Our Lives is going to outrun Boston Legal and more people in the States will see Family Guy than would see Utena even if it aired daily for half a year.  As television is primarily a commercial medium, these are the sort of things that have to be attended to.  There's no getting around it, aside from when somebody airs a loss-leader because they can get some hype or prestige out of it.

What I would like, is to pretend once in awhile, that people as a whole or in general, are smart enough to know what they're being sold hard is never the whole array of what's available.  I'd like to pretend people rent movies that didn't get theatrical releases, or listen to music that hasn't hit the top of any chart you'll see quoted in a glossy or run across the backpages of a newspaper.

Aw, don't be so negative about it. For the most case, people don't get info of new great stuff other than what the news tell them. Can't blame them for that.