Dallbun wrote:

I have no idea where an age estimate of 18-19 would come from. We do, however, know that he was born on September 15th (a Virgo), and that his blood type is A. Because it's Japanese media, and that is essential information.

Well, based on that, I'd say that he's presenting himself as someone in his mid-to-late twenties. He certainly can't be older than thirty-eight, since, at this age, he would be old enough to be Kanae's dad.

About The 18-19 age theory:

Appearance/Artstyle

TV!Akio doesn't look much older than Touga/Saionji, if at all.  He is hardly any taller or more muscular.

The slender MAkio looks even younger than MTouga.

If you look at Seal of the Rose, Child!Dios is shown prepubescent, and hardly looked more than 4 years older than Child!Anthy and Child!Utena.  Child!Dios in Episode 34 certainly did not look much older than Child!Touga and Child!Saionji in Episode 9 - and that happened at the same time/place (Utena's coffin scene).


Hints/Evidence/Speculations

Do we have any evidence that Akio is supposed to be older than Dios in relation to his age to Anthy's? 

Are the siblings' age gap supposed to increase just because they're masqurading as humans now?

The only evidence of Akio being older than Touga (17) is that he is old enough to drive.  And Akio is shown excited by the right to drive (doing showy acrobats and such) to the point of being little-boyish.  It's like, "hey!  I'm finally old enough to drink/smoke!"  That is a telling sign of Akio being young, and fits with speculations of his being a borderline adult of 18-19.

The Japanese, especially back in the 90s, is a culture where the young respects / defers to their elders by default.  That's where the respected honorific "sempai" thing comes in.   14 yr old Utena's repeated defiance against the Guidance Counselor (and eventually the vice principal too) is meant to show how tough and counter-current she is.  Likewise, 18 yr old "Mikage" is seen as this exceptional young man for being able to dominate the faculty members/outside politicians around him. 16 yr old Juri, who coerces the Vice Principal into taking the GC away so she can chat with Utena, is also seen is exceptionally powerful/not the norm. 

In Episode 14, Kanae teases Akio for marrying into her family for the projector in front of Anthy and Utena.  Would Kanae do such a thing if Akio is a significantly older gentleman?  That would be seen as unbecoming or rude for  a traditional young lady like her.

In Episode 25, Saionji is shown rather dismissive of Akio's presence in the car scene.   ('So, you're the Trustee Board Chairman who's engaged to Ohtori's daughter.")  Would teenage Saionji, who is presented as traditional in many ways, behave like this towards an adult authority figure, no matter how distasteful he found Akio?

In my Chinese-translated copy of Episode 30, the old maid teacher admires Akio for "being so young, yet having such a sophisticated sense of fashion. Int he same episode, Mrs. Ohtori certainly treats him like a very young man for her to be able to berate him in that harsh manner (prior to using him as boy toy to sate her appetites).  If Mrs. Ohtori is preying on an older gent, she would employ a softer, more demur in her approach.  Remember, it was the 90s.


Conclusion

So yes, the Akio is 18-19 theory stands for some very valid reasons.  Just that no one can say with absolute certainty cause nothing is stated in text.

Agreed that animes ages skew young.   

Note also how Akio is supposed to be a romantically attractive (if bad) character in RGU.  There's this "charming older boy " trope prevalent in shoujo works, but that mostly addresses young girls fancying a rich older boy who can drive them around town to fancy places and paying for it all.  See Mamoru in sailor moon, who is old enough to drive a car and pay for his dates with 14 yr old Usagi.  Mid-20s will be seen as "old uncle" by the anime watching tweens and thus no longer desirable.  Even Tsuzuki in Yami no Matsuei, whose human id is like 24, is made fun of for being a creepy uncle by the male/female teenage side characters. 

If Akio really is in his mid-twenties, he'd be just like that gym teacher whom Utena and co suspected Nanami might fancy in Ep 6 [Miki (awed/shocked):  So she does like older men...].  Teen girls like Utena, Wakaba etc would not have considered Akio as some serious romantic possibility then, not even in jokes.

Raven Nightshade wrote:

I'm willing to accept a range of 19-25, but I'd like to add that the legal marriage age in Japan is 20 (16 with parental consent).

Also, related, we keep making everyone a year older than they actually are. Japanese kids start kindergarten at 5 just like we do in the West, the only difference being that it's in April instead of August/September. Utena and Anthy are 13, not 14, for the run of the series. Touga isn't 17 until his birthday party.

Sounds about right. 16 with parental consent will cover "Ohtori Akio" along with Kanae, since he's legally adopted into the Ohtori Family.  Such genius on the part of BePapas; it's almost like they've covered grounds to hide Akio's exact human age on purpose!

ps  So Nanami Miki and Kozue are only 12?

pps  Akio only started driving in Ep 25.  Akiocar was neither shown nor mentioned before that point in time.  I wounder if it means that his human id hasn't reach 18 until the Akio Arc?

Edited to add:  From the scripts on Ep 14 and 15 Kanae is stated as being 18 and Kozue 13 on their Black Rose Forms.  So Kanae will be around 19 by the time she graduate next year prior the marriage.    With Utena/Anthy/Wakaba a grade above Kozue I'm guessing they're still around 14 in the series.

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (12-01-2017 03:00:54 PM)

Raven Nightshade wrote:

Great explanation on ages and passage of time in tv canon.

I see.  Thanks for clearing that up!

Ep 1 has Guidance Counselor talking about Utena trying to evade her "this year too", so I'm guessing that's close to the beginning of the school year?

I guess there are little hint as to just how far into the school year the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th arcs starts / finishes at huh?

edited to add: I just realize how, supposing Anthy (human id) and Utena share the same birth year, then there'd be an 11 month age gap between them.  In other words, Anthy would appear a year older than Utena throughout much of the year.  Plus I never would've guessed how Wakaba is also likely older than Utena, given their dynamics.

Plus if Akio Arc takes place soon-ish after September 15, then it'd fit right into my "Akio (human id) turned 18 (legal driving age in Japan) in series" theory (it's a stretch, I know).

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (12-01-2017 08:49:13 PM)

Giovanna wrote:

Hmm... I feel like my opinions might be a bit strong here.

https://i.imgur.com/aPoRPCG.gif

For what it's worth, I don't think they're strong, just different, and you have every right to them.

I personally just have a hard time with Akio being over 30 with a 13-year-old sister, and I say this as a 30-something with three older siblings in their early-to-mid 50s. Regardless of their actual ages or the passage of time in Ohtori, I don't think that age gap fits the show the two of them are putting on for the populace.

Also, part of what makes age so hard to parse in this show is the art style. SKU is especially bad at this because at least in Evangelion and Sailor Moon the proportions are a bit more balanced. Asuka and Usagi look more like 8th graders than Utena and Anthy do, but they're all the same age. These days, though, we seem to have swung in the other direction and 8th graders in anime look almost too young now because the default art style of the era has changed.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Ep 1 has Guidance Counselor talking about Utena trying to evade her "this year too", so I'm guessing that's close to the beginning of the school year?

It's usually a safe bet that any anime centered around a kid going to school is going to start at the beginning of the school year unless clearly stated or shown otherwise.

I guess there are little hint as to just how far into the school year the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th arcs starts / finishes at huh?

There might be some, but we just assume that the school functions outside of normal linear time, so we as a community never bothered looking.

edited to add: I just realize how, supposing Anthy (human id) and Utena share the same birth year, then there'd be an 11 month age gap between them.  In other words, Anthy would appear a year older than Utena throughout much of the year.  Plus I never would've guessed how Wakaba is also likely older than Utena, given their dynamics.

You got it backwards. Utena's older than Anthy and Wakaba. She was born 12/29 of the previous calendar year.

Plus if Akio Arc takes place soon-ish after September 15, then it'd fit right into my "Akio (human id) turned 18 (legal driving age in Japan) in series" theory (it's a stretch, I know)

Akio can't turn 18 during the show because that would make him the same age as Kanae.

I don't want to hijack the thread any further, so if you have any further questions, you may wish to PM me.

Last edited by Raven Nightshade (12-02-2017 08:16:52 PM)

Dallbun wrote:

I think it's ridiculous to imagine that TV series Akio is a 19 year-old college student.

However, I can't say that part of me doesn't find the idea immensely appealing.

I present Akio's Freshman English Paper.

Page 1
Page 2

That was glorious.

Giovanna wrote:

Can I please put this on social media? I like punishing my followers with near constant Akio content, peppered with mentions of U/A and Juri to mollify them. And...I don't think I can write a better Akio than you just did.

Haha, I'm glad you appreciated it. It was targeted 90% at you personally, Gio.

Feel free to post it, though I'm embarrassed by my very non-English Teacher handwriting and notation... particularly since I'm a certified English teacher. I was just cranking it out as quickly as possible while I had the time. (Which is why I somehow overlooked the chance to have Akio, college freshman, call something "sophomoric.")

Edit: IURGHKHBGYEGCSTG the white-out on 'tutoring'

I was wondering if anybody would notice that.

Hmm.  Nothing is writing in stone, so Akio’s human id is anybody’s guess.  Though, I do believe logical thinking is the only way to come up with the likelier guesses.

Let us remember why Akio and Anthy bothered with their human façades in the first place: to bait Utena, the “golden goose/ultimate target"  as pointed out by Touga (EP  26).  As such, “Akio Ohtori"  must be an image tailored as per Utena’s desires - it's a effective forbidden fruit, after all.

People have expressed concerned about college-aged boys seeming too immature for Utena’s taste, but is that really the case in-story?

Remember Utena’s preference when it comes to boys?  It’s someone alike to the Prince from her childhood.

Utena once believed how Touga was a possible matchup with the Prince from her childhood.  (EP 03).  Touga, who was only 16 at that point in time if Raven Nightshade's age-timeline is valid, was a possible matchup with Utena’s Prince.  Touga, a high school teenager, would have succeeded in seducing Utena, had Wakaba not interfered with “friendship" .   In other words, the Prince Utena was looking for has only a few years over her at the most.

Would a girl like Utena, with her preference, see Akio as a romantic possibility if he’s posing as someone much older than the Prince from her childhood could possibly be?

Remember her and Miki being shocked when they thought Nanami liked the (old to them) Gym teacher? (EP 06)

The reality of the situation, in-story, does point towards Human!Akio being a borderline adult - not much older than Touga, still young enough to be seen as a prince by Utena - instead of an older-older man.

Also, Akio presents himself as a Prince, not a King.  In a culture where 25 + is Christmas Cake territory - yes, it applies to unmarried men too - it does make more sense for him to be seen as being younger and not older.

anthy_himemiya wrote:

But it makes me glad that this is among the many things in the series that's open to interpretation, it's interesting how different people view it based on their own perception of the series.

That said, I could totally buy movie! Akio being 18 or 19. He seems, looks and acts a lot younger than TV series Akio.

Oh, that's a very good point you raise: Akio's human age being directly connected to certain fans' perceptions of what the entire series is about.  I guess this is why Akio is the one character who get to have an entire story-arc named after him: he defines the series.