One wants to mother and nuture, the other wants to work and be the best they can for the one they love.

Thanks for the contribution, crystalwren!
One question though . . . when both in a couple are eager givers, who's the one to do the taking (to make the givers feel good about themselves)?  And Keiko is a habitual bully (especially to other females) to the end of the series . . . I'm not sure if her and Wakaba - playful yet also righteous - can jam well . . .

Speaking of Wakaba, I've actually seen a pairing of her and Kozue of all people, in a fic which name I forgot.  That was all kinds of weird . . .

While semi-canon, has anyone ever written any substantial fic about Wakaba/Tatsuya?

edited to add:
Anthy x Mikage is actually semi-canon, considering her relationship with him for decades and on under the Mamiya guise, plus I've already  seen something bordering on this pairing in both The Graduates and Roses Grow.
I think even Akio X OldMaidTeachWhoHatesUtena (whom he might screw to use as tool on certain students/duelists) is more plausible than  Akio x Chuchu . . .

Last edited by gorgeousshutin (06-28-2012 04:40:10 PM)

20mensou wrote:

I actually want to see Saionji/Nanami, though I know it'd probably never happen lol.

I was actually coming over here to say this. The great thing about it is its so damn plausible, and the fact that it could go one of two ways. They could either become fiercely protective of each other(since that's in both of their nature) and enjoy playing the very strict feminine/masculine roles that both of them have. OR, the could get married, realize that the other is not up to both of their ridiculously high standards, and basically turn into a real-life production of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" Just spitefully tearing each other down constantly, but both having too much social propriety to ever get a divorce.

Either way, wouldn't you want to read those fanfics?

gorgeousshutin wrote:

In my Seinen Kakumei, Saionji is stuck in emotional entanglement with Touga and thus lives also with Nanami for the 10 years past revolution (details of which to be shown in Part Eight:  The Tragedy of W).  Think that's up your alley?

It sounds like its getting closer, but personally, it seems like they're still mainly entangled in Touga. And I tend to see post-series relationships as mainly going past whatever their main hang-up was in the series. Saionji is still fucked up, but now he's not so much fucked up about Touga anymore. So he can continue to be a douchebag post-series in other, unique ways to him. But if Nanami and Saionji seem to be seriously considering the possibility and skating around the issue(because they so would--even thought they're frank with everyone else--they've known each other way too long for it not to be awkward), then I'd be interested.

Which brings up the subject of how Saionji would ever manage to get himself into a relationship. The only reason he probably got so easily attached to Anthy A)She knows how to work him, and B)the whole victor/bride thing practically puts their heads together and says, "Now kiss!"(Someone needs to make that macro with Akio, btw). Can you imagine what Saionji would do if he had a crush on anyone else? He's dismiss it, hate himself, accept it and feel guilty, hate himself, decide he is not good enough, hate himself, resolve not to do anything, hate himself, etc. Nanami would basically have to get fed up and scream "ARE YOU EVER ACTUALLY GOING TO ASK ME OUT YOU WORTHLESS IDIOT" And then Saionji would feel shame for not being a proper MAN and hate himself. And it just continues on like that.

Saionji/Nanami comes across more like siblings to me (in the... non-SKU sense), but I admit it has some appeal.

Hrm, I'm not sure I've read enough fics to know what pairs are more rare.

Frau Eva wrote:

20mensou wrote:

I actually want to see Saionji/Nanami, though I know it'd probably never happen lol.

I was actually coming over here to say this. The great thing about it is its so damn plausible, and the fact that it could go one of two ways. They could either become fiercely protective of each other(since that's in both of their nature) and enjoy playing the very strict feminine/masculine roles that both of them have. OR, the could get married, realize that the other is not up to both of their ridiculously high standards, and basically turn into a real-life production of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" Just spitefully tearing each other down constantly, but both having too much social propriety to ever get a divorce.

Either way, wouldn't you want to read those fanfics?

I'm voting for Virginia Woolf in that scenario. I also think that Saionji would make for a shocking husband in general, regardless of who he's married to. I can see him falling quite easily falling into a mutually abusive relationship, where Saionji would basically be submissive and do as he's told 95% of the time; but he'd explode violently on a regular basis as pressure and stress finally build to critical levels. Hence the other 5%. And honestly, I can't see him making anything more than a few weeks as Nanami's husband before the violence starts. She's incredibly easy to manipulate by someone she loves and trusts and knows what they're doing, but Saionji couldn't even manipulate his own erection. He'd attempt to play the samurai/butch-manly role, Nanami would scream her head off, he'd back off in terror and then marinate in his own resentment for a lengthy period of time. He'd slowly get more and more resentful until it's overwhelming. And then, kaboom. Nanami with a shitload of bruises and a couple of broken bones. It'd never occur to either of them to leave the other; basically, Saionji's violent outbursts would become the source of Nanami's power and they'd be trapped in a cycle of manipulation and power games. If one tried to leave, the other would take steps to prevent it so that they'd 'win'. I honestly can't see them in anything remotely resembling a healthy relationship. Saionji has absolutely no ability to do so. Anthy was basically his ideal woman and he still had the overwhelming compulsion to constantly 'prove' his superiority by beating the crap out of her.

tl;dr

Saionji and Nanami would kill each other. Literally. May as well give them a prepaid funeral plot as a wedding gift.

Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf...

Last edited by crystalwren (06-30-2012 06:36:52 PM)

Frau Eva wrote:

gorgeousshutin wrote:

In my Seinen Kakumei, Saionji is stuck in emotional entanglement with Touga and thus lives also with Nanami for the 10 years past revolution (details of which to be shown in Part Eight:  The Tragedy of W).  Think that's up your alley?

It sounds like its getting closer, but personally, it seems like they're still mainly entangled in Touga. And I tend to see post-series relationships as mainly going past whatever their main hang-up was in the series. Saionji is still fucked up, but now he's not so much fucked up about Touga anymore. So he can continue to be a douchebag post-series in other, unique ways to him. But if Nanami and Saionji seem to be seriously considering the possibility and skating around the issue(because they so would--even thought they're frank with everyone else--they've known each other way too long for it not to be awkward), then I'd be interested.

Which brings up the subject of how Saionji would ever manage to get himself into a relationship. The only reason he probably got so easily attached to Anthy A)She knows how to work him, and B)the whole victor/bride thing practically puts their heads together and says, "Now kiss!"(Someone needs to make that macro with Akio, btw). Can you imagine what Saionji would do if he had a crush on anyone else? He's dismiss it, hate himself, accept it and feel guilty, hate himself, decide he is not good enough, hate himself, resolve not to do anything, hate himself, etc. Nanami would basically have to get fed up and scream "ARE YOU EVER ACTUALLY GOING TO ASK ME OUT YOU WORTHLESS IDIOT" And then Saionji would feel shame for not being a proper MAN and hate himself. And it just continues on like that.

I actually think that maybe Saionji started out with Anthy as being her friend. like Utena. At one point, maybe Saionji was actually a nice guy and saw Anthy's "vulnerability" and wanted to protect her- and thereby winning the rose bride. However, he got disillusioned with her because found out her sordid sexual past or something and got disillusioned because he thought he was special, and then never forgave her for that. One of the times Saionji duels Utena he does say that he once cared about the feelings of the Rose Bride, after all.

Anyhow, I'd like to see a SxN romance post series as a side plot to one where Saionji or Nanami decide to find their own revolution and get out of Ohtori (maybe they try to free Akio, or try to find Utena?), work together, and keep dancing closer until soneone's like, "Are you going to just kiss already? u_u;"

Saionji/Keiko

Oh, I've seen this in Archimage, as "kindred spirits both dumped by evil Touga"; I think it's the only time I've seen it.

Search for Comforting Nostalgia on fanfiction.net. I think it's the only one out there.

Thanks, Riri-kins!

On Raven Nightshade's Saionji/Keiko . . . yeah, that could maybe work; I'd write this myself, if I don't hold such disdain for Keiko's insect/bully character; to be fair, the girl is annoying, but still a lot less harmful than the false-fronted likes of Shiori or even Anthy; I'd feel safer around someone like her than the latter two in a real life setting.

If they got their inferiority complexes out of the way, we would have no plot

It's hard to write about a mundane couple in a mundane relationship . . . probably why there're so few Wakaba/Tatsuya fics out there.

20mensou wrote:

If they got their inferiority complexes out of the way, we would have no plot

Yes, but that's how the story ends. Everything before that is lots of yelling, screaming, and slapping on both sides. Saionji would constantly compare Keiko to Anthy, Nanami, and Wakaba, and Keiko would occasionally scream Touga's name in the middle of sex.

Wakaba x Her new best friend - Her new BF was obviously just waiting to make her move from episode 1, and once Utena was out of the picture she went in for the kill!

Nanami x Tatsuya - He seems non-threatening enough that Nanami might take to him and try bossing him around, if he somehow came into her social sphere. Not sure how that would go, but it might be interesting.

Last edited by HonorableShadow (07-02-2012 11:52:54 PM)

I think one of the reasons I love Utena so much is because just about every relationship is fucked all to hell. Te best you can say would be Utena and Anthy--and even they have some huge issues(the reason I'm not a huge fan of UxA because they tend to act like none exist). Nothing is simple. It helps make up for all the shallow "Miaka!" "Tamahome!" bullshit that most anime has.

I don't see Nanami and Saionji growing up together as being as much of a hindrance. It happens a lot with real people, and besides...the two aren't the most open people. I can't see it being easy for either of them to get into a relationship. Nanami obviously had a little bit of a crush on Miki and I don't think she knew much of how to handle it, and there's really no way Nanami x Miki would work. And Saionji is just...I can't imagine him coming onto anyone. Ever. He's far too disgusted with the idea. God, I'm watching this documentary on H. P. Lovecraft and its weirdly reminding me of Saionji while I'm writing this. This sheltered, too-proud, emotionally-unstable man who is too preoccupied with the filth of the outside world.