I think Wakaba in the movie talks about how prestigious the school is, and in Utena prestigious seems to equal expensive. There's sort of a background feeling of everyone being rich and beautiful. There might be some scholarships for exceptional students, but I think most of them just pay a lot for the privledge.

There's an interesting analysis of the character's names which buttresses what you've all just said. Apparently "Arisugawa," and "Saionji" are very well-known last names of the nobility in Japan. "Kiryuu" is from someone in the samurai class.

Link to a dead topic of possible interest

minervana wrote:

There's an interesting analysis of the character's names which buttresses what you've all just said. Apparently "Arisugawa," and "Saionji" are very well-known last names of the nobility in Japan. "Kiryuu" is from someone in the samurai class.

It should be noted, however, that many nobles and samurai were dirt-poor.  Samurai were abolished at the beginning of the Meiji era (which is also when peasants got surnames), and even a samurai family that was affluent in 1873 might easily have fallen on hard times by 1997.  Similarly, the nobility, apart from the Imperial family, was abolished by the American occupation in 1947.  So their surnames may tell us where they came from (interesting in and of itself!) but not what kind of means they have in the present.  Saionji may have a very old and respectable surname, but in the present he's evidently reduced to shacking up with Wakaba when kicked out of campus housing -- one more thing for him to be jealous of Touga for, I guess, considering that the Kiryuus have multiple large residences.  But otherwise, I generally agree with the consensus that social class is backgrounded in Utena, partly because it's not a necessary part of the story, and probably also partly because there is somewhat less class strife in Japan in general than there is in America, provided you're not burakumin or another "out" group.

Last edited by satyreyes (12-01-2009 05:54:49 PM)

Yeah, but we have to remember, when Saionji was moving out, all he had with him was one bag. That, plus not being willing/able to go home after than seems to say that something is very wrong in Saionji's home life. I think this contributed to his feelings of inferiority with Touga, and why it was so important that someone like him treat him as an equal. He probably was used to getting things on scholarships and having people treat him like he shouldn't be there, and Touga made him feel normal until...

Frau Eva wrote:

He probably was used to getting things on scholarships and having people treat him like he shouldn't be there, and Touga made him feel normal until...

I don't see Saionji is a scholarship kid, actually. First of all, we see him and Touga on equal terms until the incident with the coffin. Kids aren't stupid, and if there was an arrant difference in their lifestyle levels, little Saionji would probably resent him for it, however noble his family background. It seems unlikely to me that even a young Touga would choose a poor kid as his best friend, unless maybe his parents told him to for some political reason. There's no right or wrong answer, really, there are convincing arguments either way.

There are many possible explanations for his being unable to go back home, too. Maybe his parents were simply disappointed in him and said "Don't come back."

minervana wrote:

Frau Eva wrote:

He probably was used to getting things on scholarships and having people treat him like he shouldn't be there, and Touga made him feel normal until...

I don't see Saionji is a scholarship kid, actually. First of all, we see him and Touga on equal terms until the incident with the coffin. Kids aren't stupid, and if there was an arrant difference in their lifestyle levels, little Saionji would probably resent him for it, however noble his family background. It seems unlikely to me that even a young Touga would choose a poor kid as his best friend, unless maybe his parents told him to for some political reason. There's no right or wrong answer, really, there are convincing arguments either way.

There are many possible explanations for his being unable to go back home, too. Maybe his parents were simply disappointed in him and said "Don't come back."

It's probably just me, but I think in terms of how they carry themselves, Touga seems more aristocratic. His dress code tells us this (dress shirt, tights, white leather shoes) while Saionji seems... less so (his shoes are of good quality, but his attire is more upper middle-class rather than Touga's traditional upper-class). So I'd say they're both well off, but Touga moreso than Saionji. However their lifestyle is similar enough so that kid!Saionji doesn't resent Touga... yet.

As for the fact that he only has one bag, maybe he's the kind of person who doesn't believe in lot of possessions? But then again, he treats Anthy as a possession of social status (I have the Rose Bride, which means I'm the VICTOR! You see how important I am?!), suggesting that he does care about this kind of thing... Staying with Wakaba might just be due to a) his pride, b) his parent's disappointment, or c) he believes he can get back into Ohtori anyway and wants to stay close to Anthy.

Astute observations, DerJakob. One thing not really talked about in the series (although it's omnipresent) is what makes some people "special," while the rest are ordinary. Is the aristocracy based on ability, charm, birth, good looks, or what? The other students seem to take it for granted that the student council (who appear to be appointed, not elected) are their betters, and aspire to be like them. But what are the grounds for their inclusion in the aristocracy? Economics probably play a part in it, but I doubt there are many poor kids at the school, even on scholarships. If most of the students are fairly well off, what sets some apart from the others? It's the hair, isn't it?

Remember also that the word "nobility" can mean a member of an hereditary aristocracy, or someone showing high moral principles and ideals. I'm not sure if the Japanese equivalent has a similar double meaning, but that word has been chosen by all three translations I've seen. The series seems to deliberately blur the line between these two definitions, since the characters who are part of the aristocracy generally have no ideals, and the monarch, who should be the most "noble" of all, is a psychopath.

I'm not so sure Utena wants to usurp the monarchy. I'm not sure she's even aware that the monarchy exists. At the beginning of the series she's looking for her prince, presumably so they can be together in some romantic way. That's not related to world revolution. After Touga breaks her heart and wipes his butt with it, she recalibrates her goals--and continues to do so throughout the series. However, I don't really think she's aware of the system. Remember in Episode 20, when Akio says something like "most people live as one among many. But a few live in the limelight, like you, Tenjou," she acts completely surprised. She clearly doesn't know she's in the presence of the mastermind of those "stupid duels."

I suppose in my reading I'm far less concerned with who specifically is a member of the student council and more concerned with understanding the whole thing allegorically, reading the imagery, etc. Utena is a revolutionary character in pseudo-French garb - this speaks to the literary tradition on a number of levels. And how can we understand the imagery of upward nobility, like I mentioned with the elevators and stairs and positions of seats? Even Akio, in a sense, gazing up at the stars, remains below them, a sort of divinely appointed monarch who still sits in awe of some power above him. In this sense we can see strati being transgressed, though maybe not necessarily destroyed.

And to take this to a whole new absurd level, could we read Utena as a sort of Robespierre character, guillotining her way to the top only to suffer the same fate as her foes? The revolutionary who ends up killed by her own revolution? Just a thought.