Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

I'm very cool, very chill. I'm going to show my class Pee-Wee's Playhouse to keep chill.

But, when I come back to the States, I'm going to find everyone I know who voted third party this year and kick them somewhere painful when they least expect it.

And while you're at it, scream 'ALEPPO'. They may not get it, though.

The popular vote margin is actually not the problem.  As I type this, the Times projects Clinton to win the popular vote by between 1 and 1.5 points (i.e. over a million votes).  Her problem is that a whoooole lot of those votes come from racking up really big margins in states like New York and California that were always going to vote for her.  The most likely outcome right now seems to be that she will win the popular vote, but lose the Electoral College.  Her remaining paths to victory all include winning either Arizona or Michigan, both of which are leaning very decidedly red right now, as well as Pennsylvania, which amazingly also looks to be going for Trump.  President Trump, at this point, is almost certainly going to be a thing.

It's hard to understand what's happening.  It's hard to know how much to fear for my friends, and my country.

I think someone saw this coming.
https://youtu.be/YwZ0ZUy7P3E

Giovanna wrote:

I am generally a spectator citizen. I vote of course, but I find the process generally amusing.

This isn't funny anymore.

The status of POCs. Reproductive rights. Global civility. Right to religion.

I just tried to see how I could help my family immigrate up to Canada, and apparently I need my citizenship first. I tried to get at the applications...and the Canadian immigration site is down.

That site seems to go down whenever there is something troubling in American politics going on. I remember back in the primaries or very early into the actual race, Trump said something outrageous, as he is wont to do, and that site immediately went down as it could not handle the sudden inflow of traffic from the States.

I am so sad for you all, so, so utterly sad that I cannot even express it properly.

Last edited by Nocturnalux (11-08-2016 11:39:21 PM)

It's over.

This is what America wants.

I just...can't even.

Four years of watching train wreck ahead of us. Trippy, eh?

I honestly didn't believe it would come to this. Just like with Brexit.
Baltics have most likely already bitten all their collective nails by now.

I don't know what happens over the next four years.  Best-case scenario, Trump turns out to be just another politician who talks big but does nothing once in office, Senate Democrats are disciplined and use the filibuster freely, and Republicans are split internally (some of them want nothing to do with what Trump stands for) and can't consistently vote together.  Worst-case scenario, Republicans use rulemaking procedures at the start of the term to abolish the filibuster and enjoy unchecked legislative power, Trump actually does the things he said he would do, and the normalization of bigotry and misogyny emboldens some white guys to commit violence against already-oppressed groups, leading to the fear of fascism becoming the reality of fascism.  And I genuinely do not know which of those scenarios is more likely.

I feel pretty lucky that my girlfriend is a Canadian citizen.  I am doing some research, if the Canadian immigration website ever stops crashing from too much load on its servers.

Fuck.  Just… fuck.

I really did not think that it would end up this way.  I really wish there was a place I could scream, but that tends to get the police called on you in the city.

Welp, time to start researching nonviolent conflict techniques in preparation for the coming storm.  And maybe see if there really is a movement for the secession of Cascadia I can hop on board with.  I refuse to leave, and I refuse to live with whatever bullshit is coming down the pipeline.  There will be a way to fight back and I will find that way.

Ugh, guess I'm now planning to do my masters outside the United States. I can't believe given the behavior of Trump that he got elected.  At least the democratic state senator I voted for got elected.

Satyr, just ask me!

When you apply for residency based on marriage you will have to prove your relationship is legit; phone or email records (not necessarily the actual text of course), photos of the relationship and wedding, and so forth. Getting your shit in order is the hardest part, but applying as an outland applicant (ie. not wanting to be in Canada or work there as the process develops) makes it take 6 months or so rather than 2 years, since the US embassy does your paperwork instead of Ontario.

Applying as a skilled worker is a great deal harder and only an option as far as I know for people who can prove they are needed. Or they can buy in, but you know, guessing not an option.

Either way it is a legitimate thing to consider. I absolutely love Canada and don't regret coming here for a minute. In fact at this point I'm prouder to be a landed immigrant here than a citizen of the US. Canada isn't for everyone--there are things here that would be a real challenge for some Americans to swallow, and once in a while I'm shocked by how different it is here. But by an large, Canada owns.

As for Trump, my guess is going to be the former, that he'll turn out to be just another politician/gameplayer. I'm more worried about the senate, and the potential mess of a SCOTUS we have on our hands. It won't be Trump himself that does the damage in this scenario. But whether you think he means what he campaigned on or not, there's no denying this is a very bad day for a lot of groups that aren't white males. Trump is a jackass and never much worried me--what worries me is the rhetoric and behavior of the mob that follows him. During his victory speech someone in the crowd shouted 'hang Obama,' and Youtube is full of rallies where people are literally screaming racist epithets and wearing shirts that insult Hillary's gender.

I don't want to believe we can be this hateful. I know as animals we become vicious when we feel cornered, and a lot of Americans feel that way. Why they feel that way, well sometimes is legitimate, and sometimes a product of a lot of factors that are both not their fault and very much the country's fault. But right now, there are large numbers of Americans that think the solution is...this. Racism, bigotry, and a combative attitude.

But you know what? I'm sitting on a high horse, and I know it. Because even while I'm trying to understand why people voted for him, mostly I'm internally screaming that it's because they're uneducated jackass hicks with no capacity to look past the rotting trucks parked in their yards. Part of me believes they deserve better than that, and most of me agrees their voices should be heard. But I have to say, I've seen little to justify my hopes there. And a lot to suggest that a lot of disgruntled, frustrated Americans aren't looking for consensus and resolution. But instead someone to blame.

Make America Great Again definitely has more ring than Hillary's slogans. I get that. But it's part of a disappointing tradition, especially in the Republican party, of selling fear, and anger, and it builds a campaign on the golden age fallacy. Whether you liked his politics or not, Obama didn't sell that, even though he probably could have given the economic climate he first ran in. He sold hope. Enthusiasm. Faith in the country as a whole. Hillary tried to do this, to some extent, but I don't blame people for not buying in. There's a lot to dislike about her. But she loves the country she's in, believes in it, and wants to see it do well. America is still a fucking child on the global stage, and children don't thrive when they have their previous report cards rubbed in their face. They thrive when they are directed toward improving their future ones.

I really, really hope this goes better now than the campaign did. But education isn't America's strong suit, and the old chestnut about repeating the past is strong with me today.

Edit: The term limits thing sounds good and in principle I'm behind it. But there should then also be term limits on lobbyists. Because you'll give the lobby groups a lot more power if they get the experience as senators come and go. And sweet jesus lord in heaven is our environment just right fucked. At this rate reproductive rights won't matter in a couple generations anyway.

America can be a lot more hateful than this. Trump is and will be judged by the people he associates with. He may not be a racist or unstable but presenting that persona to the public will attract people who are unstable and racist. Day one street protests means a banana republic period.

Gio, you are being far too respectful of Donald Trump voters. In the worst case scenario there are people who had factory jobs and were unable to do ANY other kind of skilled work and do not have the ABILITY to learn or think. These people will blame china and any other vague "enemy"  globalization etc without under standing that one of the goals of the stereotypical factory is to replace all of the unskilled workers with technology. One of my instructors stated that these people tend to vote against their own interests. Remember in 2050 the racial makeup of America won't be what it is now so best interest would not be in return to the past.

satyreyes wrote:

we could have been talking to conservatives and moderates, listening to their experiences, sharing ours, and trying to reach an understanding so the other side doesn't feel like they have to support a populist, racist, possibly fascist demagogue in order to be heard.

[satyr, this sounds angry, but I'm totally not angry with you, so please don't feel the emotion, or anything, is directed at you.]

Maybe, but to be honest, considering when I left America, one of the last things to happen was to be followed slowly, by a truck full of good old boys in the middle of the night, throwing glass and paper trash at me and yelling racist and homophobic bs at me from my girlfriends' until some dudes unloading their gun rack stopped it and offered me a ride the rest of the way home, I don't want to talk to them.

That town is so pro-Trump, they trained the kids in the public schools, like my nieces and nephew, to repeat, rote, "We support Trump." The same schools that, when my eldest niece won a math and science prize as one of the top three students, in her age range in the district, told her dad that yeah, she won, but if she ever messes up or does anything, there's not going to be any tolerance "just because she's Indian." A town that trains its kids to call Jews, Indians, and whoever else they dislike, "protected classes," on account of, y'know, other places would shame them for kicking the shit out of them or setting their businesses on fire.

The nice Asian food store by a mixed-Asian couple, in town? They harassed them so bad they shut down and moved.

So, I don't want to talk to them. I don't want to take the time to see if they're one of the good eggs supporting Trump out of fear or confusion. It's like flying a rebel flag in the northern part of the country, or out in California. I don't care what the motive is, or how into state's rights you are. You flew your flag. I saw it. We're done.

We're not here, on this Earth, to enlighten or serve angry, selfish people while they step on us. Not the billionaires, not the poor ones.

I'm not sure that talking to Nazis works. Even, moderate Nazis.

And, seeing as how stories are flooding in of immediate abuses in the name of the new Trump regime, I can't see it as anything but that. It wasn't a poor white vote. Or a disenfranchised citizen vote. It was a bully vote, by people who are mad that they can't be on top and bully everybody else, but Trump told them that, yes they could. They bought it.

What "we" should have been doing, we as a country, is prosecuting Trump hard on every illegal thing that was awaiting trial. Don't delay trials so he can run. Trial now. "We" shouldn't be inviting him on talk shows to coddle him like he's a cartoon toddler. Put him on a show and grill the fucker. Meanwhile, talk to the people determined to vote for the shill who has never held an office or the guy who jumped off the Republican ticket because he couldn't get elected on it, and try to sway some more of them. Those people, I believe, could have actually made the difference. Bern or die folks who refused to vote because they have principles. Their friends, their lovers and neighbors needed to talk to them, maybe.

But, Trump has been being Trump for a long time. Anyone who could take all the hateful things he's said or promised, all the things he's going to stand trial for or testify in on behalf of his business, all the things he's admitted to doing... anyone who can take in all that and say that it's worth it because he'll build a wall or keep a cunt out of office... fuck'em. They were already promising that if he wasn't elected, there'd be a coup and a firing squad, anyway. That was literally part of their rhetoric across the board. If he couldn't get elected, there needed to be a coup, and they needed to shoot and hang people. Any adult who signed up with that, regardless of motivation, is not an ally I need or someone I want to try to talk sense to.