Rosemary Bats wrote:

Tamago wrote:

You could almost believe that Akio Ohtori and Gendo Ikari were cut from the same cloth when you think about the sort of things they have both done...scary!

Gendo, however, recognized his wrongdoings and even asked for Shinji's forgiveness (even though Shinji wasn't present) before he died (or was assimilated into Lilith). Akio was just like "oh well, she's dead, let's start the game over again, sis!" (Not saying Akio's 'evil', no one in the series is TRULY good OR evil, they're too human for that crap...just saying he'd never ask forgiveness from anyone.)

It might be a bit of a copout to say this but, I believe that the main reason Akio isn't able or willing to care is that when Anthy removed a part of Dios which turned him into Akio, one of the things that was removed was most of his conscience which would prevent fromfrom feeling any deep remorse on his actions.

Okay, so let's see if I can get a few of the theories together in a logical, flowing form........ (and a bit of mine)

The Sword of Dios.

The intention of the sword is outwardly noble-to bring miracles and change/revolution.... but the inward/actual purpose now is to control and to mislead.... the outward form matches the conceptions of the beholder. Saioji saw it as a way to change his pro quo-to bring his level of power to become equal to what he assumes Touga has.... however, this assumption is false. Touga saw it as a tool to bring change and power over others. (Utena in particular at the time.) He wanted to change her mind into thinking/believing that he was her Prince, even if he wasn't what she was looking for in the first place. Utena had no preconceptions, however, she took the literal view of the sword at first as Saionji saw it, thus it kept the same form.

However, Anthy does bring the illusion, which is afterall, partly real, that the sword is 'pure' and 'noble' and the permission to the Victor to draw upon it's powers, which is why things seemed to go to hell when Saionji tries to force her to bring him to the Castle of Eternity and at the end, when the power is realized in Utena, taking the power of the Prince and Anthy's belief.

When the soulswords are drawn in the Black Rose Arc, there are a few reasons as to why the swords seem darker and twisted. First reason: When the swords are taken out of the Duellists, it is done without their permission. Second: Consider the nature of the Black Roses. They are the symbol of the deepest, darkest desires of both the keeper and the taker. Like for Nanami, her sword contains her disdain for almost everyone save her brother, her loneliness in a sheltered, illusionary world where it's just her, her brother and possibly Miki and his sister. (Her 'parents' probably showed her off as a beautiful trophy child.) Her little pet boy forced his own impatience and frustrated admiration into the sword and into Nanami-much as if it were an act of rape if you will. Thirdly, both parties are being manipulated into action, though how the flow of power goes (blindness>Juri<Shiori<jealousy for example) varies pretty wildly, though misinformation and frustration both seem to play large parts, like a huge game of Telephone or Gossip. All of this plays into twisting the swords and making them impure.

A possible fourth reason that ties it together might be that the swords haven't been fully forged yet-the Duellists are still children and adolescents. They are still bound by petty things-as the chick cannot fly before it's an adult, their wings are bound...

...but what about those final duels? Touga starts using a different normal sword, giving up his childlike powerplays. Each of the Duellists do something similar, with the exception of Nanami, as she cannot yet change-she is probably younger than Miki if I recall rightly. With this casting away of unattainable desires, they leave unreasoning childhood dreams behind or redefine them to better fit reality and become young adults-the next state for them-their own personal revolutions. As adults, they try once more to fight, but on different terms and with quite different motives and as adults, their swords are complete-fairly ordinary in comparison to the Prince's Sword, but they now keep their own power and find it for now-good enough.


...so what about Utena's sword and the Sword of Dios?

EDIT: *Err.... part of the following was wrong but it is now fixed*
Until the end, Utena's Soul Sword is unseen-she uses a bokken/whatever, a nice sword from Juri .....but never her Soul Sword until Anthy pulls it out after the Sword of Dios. First, I wonder why. Is she not connected to anyone else to the degree where they would wish for her heart? Except for Anthy?....not really. Her aunt doesn't seem to really understand her-not really. (Manga ) Her best friend outside of Ohtori doesn't seem to understand her, even though he truely seems to love her regardless.... she is the one person who doesn't want to be understood, but just wants to be.... and to be an almost stereotypical prince.

In finding someone to crusade for, she redefines herself from the unrealistic quest for Dios and his legacy to someone who wants to be a prince in her own right, not just an extension of Dios and the whims of others... and being such, Akio and Anthy would both be unable to affect the sword or take a part of her away.... thus, her Soul Sword did not tarnish. Akio wasn't able to 'tarnish' her because Utena wouldn't let him.

....and because Akio and Anthy have redefined the Sword of Dios and know what it is, when Akio takes it, the pretensions fall away and it tarnishes. It is in the hands of a child that only appeared to grow up. He has not changed, he has no future except for an endless cycle of death and stagnation, where Utena will bring true change. It is in this realization, Akio loses the catalyst-Anthy, who chooses the newly reborn prince over the dead/dying one.

I would think that the Sword of Dios can be considered 'destroyed'-it then becomes purely Anthy's sword, as she is following Utena's example and her own person and no longer a sort of extension of Dios. This is another possible reason that the Sword seems to wither in his hands.... the sword is no longer his to use, but it isn't Utena's to use, either....

.....because it's Anthy's alone.

Last edited by Anthiena (10-30-2006 03:30:16 PM)

Put it to not seeing it..... ;


....but not many people know the difference between a bokken and a shinai. Why be obscure when you can generalize a bit so more can understand? Meh. Tired. ~___~zzzzz


EDIT: ....and now it is fixed.

Last edited by Anthiena (10-30-2006 03:30:46 PM)

Oh, Akio's not the "Boy howdy, I'm so evil it makes Satan flush crimson with jealous rage, the evilty of my evilness is so wonderfully evil, evil evil evil." club baby seals, steal girlscout cookies, murderous rampage evil. Evil comes in flavors, like ice cream. I'm not debating the fact that he seems to enjoy making elaborate traps for people to fall in themselves, tempting people to commit his sins for him rather than dirtying his own hands. My point was just: 'Akio is evil, even if he's rather nice about it. He gives you perks with your damnation offer, like car rides and sex.'

Good point. Maybe it was originally tarnished anyway. Just one more illusion to add to the Ohtori grab bag.

Giovanna wrote:

I suppose in this especially his drawing himself the devil is appropriate. He coerces, manipulates, maybe kinda tricks, but there's always a consenting party in the 'evil' he does, which is especially amusing given the vast majority of his behavior is firmly rooted in his own selfishness.

That's exactly what I thought while reading your post. Maybe his character makes such vibrant parallels to Lucifer in order to help the viewers understand what kind of evil he is. Lucifer isn't an evil that forces us either. He's a force that persuades, implies, and makes things seem appealing. He holds the contract and shows you the dotted line when you sign your soul away. But he never forces you into anything. Because humans, as he sees it, are weak little creatures. They are impressionable, and they are slaves to their desires. (*cough Gaiman refrence cough*) Akio sees humans the same way. They're stupid, and he's above them. He doesn't need to force them into anything. All he needs to do is taunt them a little, and point them down the "right" path. They'll follow on their own.

I have a theory about this
When taking a soul sword the characters never actually touch the duelists or the sword.

In the BRS the characters either touch the sword or touch the duelists' chests(hearts?) as does Akio in the duel called Revolution.

Maybe when you touch someones soul sword you "taint" it with your intentions.
In the final duel when drawing Utena's sword Akio didn't touch Utena's chest or heart. I believe that is the reason Utena's sword wasn't tarnish.