This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top06-27-2011 03:00:19 PM

BlackRoseVixen
Snowdrop Lover
From: USA, Arkansas
Registered: 12-24-2007
Posts: 1815
Website

Sequel or Prequel?

As I was driving home from the store just now, a thought came to me... If the SKU series was ever continued, which would be the better experience for its fans, a sequel that picks up where the end left off, or a prequel that could possibly offer us a deeper look into the lives of the characters we know and love? Hmm. That's a tough one right there. school-freud For me, personally, I would probably be satisfied with either. Both have the potential to be interesting and insightful. Still, if I just HAD to pick one or the other, I'd go with the sequel, if for no other reason than the fact that we'd get to see what becomes of everyone. emot-keke

What do you guys think? school-eng101 Requesting opinions, please.


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#2 | Back to Top06-27-2011 03:13:34 PM

Dani
IRG Messiah
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 361

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I vote sequel, just because a show about escaping or transcending your past shouldn't be stuck in the past itself. On the other hand, the movie could have been a chance to have a sequel but...yeah.

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#3 | Back to Top06-27-2011 06:28:33 PM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I would rather have a prequel, since I like the ambiguity of the ending, and I'd hate for a sequel to ruin that.  I'd like a series about the rise of the revolution duels.  It wouldn't feature Utena very much, but I don't see a sequel featuring her much either.  Her story is told.  We know who she was and have a pretty good idea of what she may have become.

That said, the series seems pretty complete as it is.  I'd be skeptical of any continuation.

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#4 | Back to Top06-27-2011 08:41:50 PM

Crystalline_Dream
Sunlit Gardener (Finale)
From: Beneath a starry sky
Registered: 01-17-2011
Posts: 180

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I'd like a prequel with more exposition on the characters, though even this may take away from the specific ideas and traits each character is meant to embody. That said, it may serve to more fully humanize them and flesh them out. I thought the ending accomplished exactly what it was meant to; anything further, I believe, would be a disservice.  I, like KaleMarsh, appreciate the ambiguity of the ending, and in a sequel we would lose the opportunity to decide for ourselves the outcome of Utena's actions at Ohtori.

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#5 | Back to Top06-27-2011 10:07:01 PM

Giovanna
Ends of the Fandom
From: Edmonton, AB
Registered: 10-12-2006
Posts: 8797
Website

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I gotta go with prequel, too. There are questions left unanswered in both time line directions, but you can answer questions about the leadup without destroying the flavor of the series. The ambiguity at the end was so much part of what we loved that to remove it I think would take away a lot of what Ikuhara admits pretty firmly he was going for--the choice of the viewer to see events the way they want to. And after all, that we don't know what happens makes us experience the ending the way Anthy does. She doesn't know what happens either--that's part of growing up. Accepting the unpredictable, the scary, the possible.

A prequel, however, could flesh out various relationships without much changing things as they happen later. Many of the events in the past are pretty much plainly laid out, with some major exceptions that may or may not be done a disservice with detail. Do we really want to know whether Miki and Kozue had sex? Does the extent of their childhood curiosity really matter anyway? On the other hand, Touga's relationship with Nanami and Saionji, or Juri's relationship with Shiori, is pretty well laid out. It would only be expanding on what we already believe to put more screentime into those.


Akio, you have nice turns of phrase, but your points aren't clear and you have no textual support. I can't give this a passing grade.
~ Professor Arisa Konno, Eng 1001 (Freshman Literature and Composition)

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#6 | Back to Top06-27-2011 11:44:57 PM

Ashnod
La poétesse revolutionnaire
From: Missouri, United States
Registered: 03-01-2007
Posts: 1243
Website

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

Giovanna wrote:

I gotta go with prequel, too. There are questions left unanswered in both time line directions, but you can answer questions about the leadup without destroying the flavor of the series. The ambiguity at the end was so much part of what we loved that to remove it I think would take away a lot of what Ikuhara admits pretty firmly he was going for--the choice of the viewer to see events the way they want to. And after all, that we don't know what happens makes us experience the ending the way Anthy does. She doesn't know what happens either--that's part of growing up. Accepting the unpredictable, the scary, the possible.

A prequel, however, could flesh out various relationships without much changing things as they happen later. Many of the events in the past are pretty much plainly laid out, with some major exceptions that may or may not be done a disservice with detail. Do we really want to know whether Miki and Kozue had sex? Does the extent of their childhood curiosity really matter anyway? On the other hand, Touga's relationship with Nanami and Saionji, or Juri's relationship with Shiori, is pretty well laid out. It would only be expanding on what we already believe to put more screentime into those.

Ruka and Juri's past would be interesting.

When Akio first seduced Touga (in whatever manner gained Touga's allegiance) would be interesting.

Some information on Utena's previous year would also be intriguing, since the opening episode makes it clear this is NOT her first year at Ohtori but most of the Student Council react as though they've never heard of her before except through various information networks. It seems unlikely someone of her fandom amongst the students would be so anonymous, even for someone not yet in high school.


Flowers without names blooming in the field can only sway in the wind. But I was born with a destiny of roses, born to live in passion and glory.

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#7 | Back to Top06-28-2011 07:24:11 AM

Chrome Homura
Poor Saionji :(
From: Oregon, USA
Registered: 06-07-2010
Posts: 518

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I'm vaguely of the prequel camp myself, as I agree with most of the above points in favor of such.

To play devil's advocate however, while I would appreciate the fleshed out backstory I really I don't think a sequel would ruin the series in my eyes, assuming that it was executed well and at the very least made by people who understand Utena while still knowing what they're doing.

But then, I'm personally against the ambiguous nature of the ending and see the final episode as being more like the close of an arc. The potential to continue the story is too obvious, and my curiosity about what happens to Anthy after leaving Ohtori (and Utena herself, for that matter) can't be sated by mere speculation.


I am no longer here. If you wish to find me, my discord username is Heroic_Spirit_Gomikubi.

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#8 | Back to Top06-28-2011 08:16:06 AM

Calamity
High Tripper
Registered: 06-13-2010
Posts: 244

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

As much as I would like a sequel for closure on what happens to everyone, the ambiguity of the last episode was the perfect way to end the series. I've said before that the very last scene of the series causes my heart to melt into complete goo, and if I knew exactly what happens after the fact it might not have the same effect on me. Sometimes it's nice to be able to converse on how we think it would end, where we as fans think the characters end up and what their future motivations in life become. Having that spelled out for us could only, in some ways, lead to disappointment.

A prequel though I would really like. I can't decide if I truly want it but a bit of fleshing out about Dios (and Anthy's) fall could be very interesting. As it stands it's one of the most heartbreaking parts of the show to me. I'd probably see it more as an OVA, limited in episodes so it doesn't feel dragged down by too long of a running time. Sure we know what the end would be, but a little more lead-up to that (perhaps a bit more time with Dios doing his princely duties) could make it even more soulcrushing.


Why yes, I *can* be mentally masochistic. emot-wink

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#9 | Back to Top06-28-2011 01:34:30 PM

Davine Lu Linvega
Spam Arsonist
Registered: 06-08-2011
Posts: 88

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I don't think a sequel or prequel in the conventional sense would work. Improving on the characters as they are would be quite hard, and trying to add more backstory would be more likely to cheapen them than to deepen them. A sequel following the Continued Adventures of Utena and Anthy would ruin the ending of the series for reasons that have already been explained. There are still ways you could do justice to either concept, though. They just have to be farther removed from the plot of the SKU series while retaining its themes. Like so...

A possible prequel: The story of another dueling game held by Anthy and Akio in a different time and place. Maybe France during its Revolution, maybe an American frontier town shortly after the Civil War. Or maybe an American cotton plantation in the South shortly before the Civil War. The race dynamics in this scenario could get very interesting. Akio is the owner of one of the country's biggest plantations, with bold suitors vying for his sister Anthy's hand in marriage. Anyone who looks at him knows he's passing for white, but his money, influence and charisma are such that this fact is politely ignored by everyone - in public. Anthy has a harder time of things, especially when other girls start getting jealous. She dreams of meeting someone who can see what's in her heart rather than her race or her class, but could such a person really exist? And if they did, how would they fare in this world? The shadow girls in this scenario are slave girls making fun of the master and his hangers-on when they're out of earshot.

A possible sequel: Anthy is gone, but Ohtori Academy is still accepting students. Ohtori doesn't admit people in the usual way, though, and as we know, it's not exactly a normal school. You don't have to write essays or get interviewed to go to Ohtori - submitting an application for admittance is more likely to take the form of an act like visiting the grave of your unrequited love, or sneaking into a condemned sanitarium to find the padded room where a once-brilliant artist was held. Ohtori's tuition is always high but never counted in yen, dollars or euros. To make payment for your entry to the school, you'll need to whisper the name you gave your miscarried child, or shed tears over the death of the person you wished you could be. Like a key and a lock the two come together, and a gate is opened to the sunlit garden where no one need ever grow up. Ohtori is not the only place of its kind, either - our world has many points of contact with others, but few people know how to traverse them. These pocket-places have names like the Holiday House and Silent Hill, and most people who enter do so by accident, but there are groups of people who explore them intentionally, seeking knowledge and material leavings of human passion that can be found nowhere else. One day a team of such adventurers happens upon an entrance to Ohtori Academy, but once inside they find it to be far more than they bargained for.

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#10 | Back to Top06-28-2011 04:10:31 PM

HonorableShadow
Thorn of Death
From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 482

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I don't want either.  I think Utena should be left alone.  If they do make something, it should be AU and non-canon, like the movie.  emot-smile


I'll show you a sight you've never seen before.

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#11 | Back to Top06-29-2011 12:33:59 AM

PrettyPeopleWithSwords
Rose Smilee
Registered: 05-26-2010
Posts: 131

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I'd rather have a sequel. It would be pretty tough to pull off but I'd really like to see a show with the same awesome style about the characters' next stage of life. SKU seems to be more about letting go of childhood, I'd like to see a show where the characters (plus maybe some new ones) try to embrace adulthood. You know, in their own messed up ways that may or may not get fixed by the end. emot-smile I'd like to see Ikuhara sum up adulthood in a giant crazy allegorical university setting or something.

I have to admit that most of the time I hate prequels. They often feel like a cheap way to cash in on an already-written story without having to do the hard work of actually continuing said story in a competent, interesting way. Not that it'd be impossible to make a good SKU prequel but I totally agree with Dani; the irony of SKU delving into its own past is pretty great.

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#12 | Back to Top06-30-2011 08:56:24 AM

KaleMarsh
High Tripper
From: Washington, DC
Registered: 06-13-2011
Posts: 245

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

HonorableShadow wrote:

I don't want either.  I think Utena should be left alone.  If they do make something, it should be AU and non-canon, like the movie.  emot-smile

This.

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#13 | Back to Top07-03-2011 02:11:01 PM

Lightice
Azure Paleontologist
From: Finland
Registered: 10-21-2006
Posts: 1255

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

Well, as demonstrated by at least a couple of excellent fanfic writers, it would be possible to make a great sequel to this series, but on the other hand it would kind of destroy the mood set at the end of the series which allows everybody to imagine their own follow-up if an official sequel was actually made happen. Maybe Ikuhara could be persuaded to make a mindfuck sequel which shows a wide variety of alternate events, and then saying that one of them is the true one, but never telling which? I would find that absolutely hilarious.


Hei! Aa-Shanta 'Nygh!

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#14 | Back to Top07-03-2011 05:30:10 PM

artemis88
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 05-05-2011
Posts: 66

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I feel like the movie *was* sort of a sequel.. in a way. Because the characters all seemed to be a bit older, and some of them were even dead..

A sequel could be really interesting though. Obviously it couldn't just pick up where the series leaves off, it would have to provoke more questions than it answers.. But I would love to see more Utena.. I would love an episode where Anthy and Utena are reunited, officially, even if it ruined the ambiguity.. Just because I can't bear the possibility of that not happening x) I'm sure some people would be disappointed though..

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#15 | Back to Top07-04-2011 09:46:52 PM

spoon-san
Someday Shiner
Registered: 03-18-2009
Posts: 3423

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

A prequel would be a lot less risky.  The ending was just superb the way it was and a sequel would have to be just so to not ruin what ended so well.  A prequel could be potentially very interesting, too.  There is so much from the get-go that is worth exploring in terms of the characters, their history, their relationships...I would find the history of Akio and Anthy investigated even more in depth to be highly interesting.  But if a sequel was made that would do the ending justice, I probably would prefer to see that.

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#16 | Back to Top07-13-2011 11:37:06 AM

Shadow Play Princess
New Student
From: SoCal
Registered: 07-12-2011
Posts: 6

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

I think I'd like to see a prequel too. I think it would be more interesting to see what happened pre-duels or in the early days before Utena stole the show than to see what became of Utena and Anthy...that's their thing, andI don't think we as the viewers were ever meant to be included. But anyways, what I would like to see would be a series that starts with Dios as the the prince and Anthy as his princess. It would then go on to show us how Dios fell from grace to become Akio, how that affected Anthy and how she became the rose bride. I think it would be great to have a more clear picture of Akio and Anthy's relationship, since, other than the sexual element, it was rather ambiguous in the series, but maybe that was the joy of it? I would also like to see how the Seitokai got involved in the duels in the first place. This fictitious prequel should end with Utena appearing at Ohtori, much the way the Star Wars prequels ended with Darth Vader, as we know him, showing up. That'd be great.

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#17 | Back to Top07-18-2011 04:05:35 AM

Louchan
Rose Bride
Registered: 11-08-2006
Posts: 100

Re: Sequel or Prequel?

When I first saw Utena, I was dying for a sequel. The idea that I'd never find out what happened to Utena or what would happen to Anthy drove me crazy.

But now, many years later, I really don't want either a sequel or a prequel. I think the series is perfected as it is, there is no need to "flesh out" anyone's past more, nor is there any need to explain what would happen after the original series ended.

But if I had to chose on of them, then prequel.

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