This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)
I've shown 5 or 6 people Utena, maybe more, and have gotten 5 of them to like it and 3 of them to be addicted to it.
I've found what turns Utena off for most people is the fact that they do NOT get it, and they do NOT like interpretting the symbolism because there's no real answer. I tend to watch it with them over AIM, because there you can talk without distrupting the actual episode. Talking about SKU during SKU seems to be the #1 way for me to get them hooked.
I'm planning on getting a more local friend into it sometime this summer, so I'll let you know how that one goes. But yes, I'd agree with everyone else in the fact that you have to tell them that it gets better after episode nine. I also found I had better success if I skipped the Egg and Cow episodes, and told them to watch them later on their own free time.
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lol egg and cow episode's are tests for fans
The symbolism really does put people off but i have got 2 people to watch it and be obsessed as me
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Eh, the only person I've ever met IRL that's seen Utena ended up not liking it because she thought it was boring. D: I was kinda bummed out because then I couldn't talk about it at all with anyone else. o-o
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The first episode i must admit, i was going, hmm... interesting but how deep does it really go (my friend who has insisted forever i should watch it never steered me once wrong...) ..second episode im going Ahmmm... and by the fifth i was clearly hooked, both on the characters and the level of depth..its hard to have something thats compelling mentally and emotionally at the same time..
Problematically, my only friends who are into Anime are so busy with their millions of things that i lack the time to properly introduce them to SKU (and to make matters worse, they are rabid fans of a lot of new series and usually dont listen to the opinions of others..) and my friends who don't care for anime, are not likely to find anything of value in this series either. Its a rare gift in this age to be able to watch things and consider them from a sybolic perspective, unless its all spelled out for you. Too many series just spell out their symbology, political, or spiritual implications in terms anyone can just blatently watch and read, [for example, Babylon 5, Jericho, BSG], finding series where you need to really break things down and consider them, because that is how they were intended to be watched, digested, and enjoyed... they are rare, and the people willing to take the effort to get the most out of them, even rarer.
I really need to find people who can appreciate the symbolic worth of a work of art and still examine it logically...
Last edited by sinthesis (05-12-2008 07:46:24 PM)
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My sister liked it okay when I was first watching it. Then she learned about some of the stuff that's revealed/goes on later in the series and became repulsed with it. It triggered a chain reaction that turned her off of anime entirely and gave her the impression that I'd become morally deteriorated since I started watching anime.
She was young then. She's a lot more mature about it now.
Many years later, I got it shown at my college's anime club. A few people really liked it, but even so I think it went over peoples' heads and we ended up voting it out in favor of a different anime.
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This weekend, the friend that I forced to watch the entire series in one sitting is coming over.
We're watching the movie.
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My closest friend is also an Utena fan - after I began obsessing over it in high school I forced him to sit through a 15 hour Utena marathon with me. He shares my appreciation for abstract, stylized shows(he's a huge, huge Evangelion fan), so we often discuss Utena at length together and love dissecting its symbolism and little obscurities. I'm pretty happy that he liked what he saw, but I like to think that Utena is a very intelligent anime which takes an open and curious mind to appreciate it. I know that sounds a little pretentious, but in my experience most fans of SKU have very discerning tastes, and shy away from a lot of the mindless junk the anime industry pumps out(I hate to call myself an anime fan sometimes when I meet other fans who rage on and on about who in naruto could be who in a super hardcore ninja battle...).
Anyways, I got a little distracted. Besides the above mentioned friend, I haven't had much success introducing people to Utena. Most of my friends seem to think I just like it because it has lesbians, which is ridiculous. If I wanted to watch a show just about lesbians, I'd be watching The L Word. My other friends who have actually seen it are more into shounen or action animes, and don't care much for symbolism.
Utena definitely isn't for most people. If you're not looking to have to make your own path through a story, then this is probably a series to be avoided. There are other shows out there that do shoujo better. Before I introduce my friends to Utena now, I fish around a little to see if they have either enjoyed Evangelion, or are into dark, controversial stories. Mentioning the incest to people is usually the clincher - they will either be repulsed by the idea, and therefore not watch the series, or be totally intrigued and henceforth Utena fans in the making.
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Well, I haven't really gotten other people to watch it yet, although my Mom did agree that she'd watch it when I got the super special awesome 2011 DVD release from RightStuf. I guess that's kinda close. It's kinda hard to describe Utena to people due to all the craziness, but I'd just start off by telling them that it's a fairytale about a girl who becomes a heroic prince and that there is also sword fights, lots of bisexuals, and a crazy-powerful student council. If your friend likes creepy stuff, then mention how creepy the Black Rose Saga was.
I haven't read the manga, but from what I heard it sounds like the anime is much better. (Also, straight!Juri?! WTF.) I think it's better to see the anime first before the movie since the movie makes more sense if you've seen the series first.
Also, try showing people the opening credits and see what they think.
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I've gotten two teachers I knew well to watch it. One in high school, and another in college. Me and my prof were probably closer than most would be(I've been in her house, and she's been in my apartment). And I was writing a paper on it for a class I was having on Postmodernism. The key with teachers is to be able to talk about the more in-depth, psychological and symbolic aspects of the series(unless of course they're...some teachers I know who seem to not give that much of a crap about thinking How is it I always feel like a minority when I geek out about intellectual subjects among TEACHERS?).
You really have to know what that person likes and try to appeal to that person's likes. It is...harder for boys. My boyfriend is willing to watch it once I get the rereleased version, but I think that's partially because it was harder to watch subbed anime on a tiny computer screen. He was kind of disbelieving of this because of how damn shoujo it looks, but I ended up getting him to LOVE Ouran. It's knowing your audience, more than anything else. Knowing what will appeal to them about it, or even if it's even possible for it to be their thing in the first place.
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Alexandra wrote:
I've never really tried to get other people to watch Utena. I like knowing that there's fans, but not everyone's had the luxury of watching this anime.
On World of Warcraft, I roleplay a character named "Anthy" on the Moon Guard server, and she's a slave to warlocks much like Anthy from Utena is a slave to the duelists. But hardly anyone ever gets the reference. I've had only two people message me saying "Hey, you like Utena, too?!" But when I do get them, it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. XD
ON A TOTALLY UNRELATED NOTE: Moon Tard. lololol, how is it these days? Still infested with Blood Elves?
But anyways, yeah. I really hate having something I watch that none of my irl friends watch. Because I like to talk about my fandoms sometimes. But it's especially hard to get people to watch Utena because I don't know where to tell them to get it. I'm really against piracy, but Utena's so rare...I kind of just tell people "check it out in fansub. But PLEASE support it if you like it. It deserves it."
EDIT: Derpy typos. I need some sleep. x_x
Last edited by Azure (01-01-2011 10:06:37 PM)
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I feel that the challange with Utena, ( i am not sure if you guys had this problem..) were false accusations about the content. I have run into some people that thought it showed nudity and crazy sex scenes, which is not true. There is that but nothing is shown and it is very well implied.
I think it is our duty, yes i said duty to set these silly people straight. Because it is those people who tell other people and we do not want Utena to have a bad rep. So we need to say " nudity really, they do not even have nipples!!" Yeah there are some messed themes, but what anime does not have some sort of awkward relationship, Utena has it all! Plus a girl with a sword and can be made into a very fun drinking game. Drink a drink after ever phalic symbol...oh wow number what is it now... * falls on floor*
I did get some members of my anime club to watch it cause they had concerns and those false pretenses and i was like err...its not that bad wtf. They loved it and were amused at anthy and all the phalic symbols, in fact one member decided to give anthy a southern belle accent which was friggin hilarious.
SO my point being is to smash all those iky misconceptions by telling people what really goes down and the scariest things about Utena are chu-chu and akio...
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innermuse wrote:
So we need to say " nudity really, they do not even have nipples!!"
This.
But anyways, I don't really believe in downplaying the more orthodox themes in Utena. In fact, I think that's what makes the show so great. Not like, in a perverted way, but how they use sexuality as a motivational force for characters. Utena is in part about sexuality and gender-roles. However, that isn't the point of it, and that's what you should try to explain. All the sexuality in Utena is veiled. (albeit VERY VERY THINLY. LIKE GOSSAMER, YES.) And it's in that vast well of subtext that Utena becomes most intriguing. The trick is not convincing them there is no sexuality, but that the sexuality isn't just there for material and fanservice.
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I finally got my boyfriend to watch it! We finished just a couple of days ago. Persuading him took a while, but it was worth it. I wanted to share it with him because it's something that means so much to me, and because I knew he'd like it - he's all about changing the world, mythology, archetypes, gender fluidity and things like that.
At one point he exclaimed "oh my god, AKIO'S TOWER IS THE AXIS MUNDI!" and I just about died of happiness since it showed he's not watching only to appease me, he's really watching and connecting it to himself and the things he knows.
It's amazing that even though it's been 7 years since I first saw it, it still blows me away, and the ending still makes me cry.
innermuse wrote:
I have run into some people that thought it showed nudity and crazy sex scenes, which is not true. There is that but nothing is shown and it is very well implied.
I... I actually started watching because I heard that's what it was like. By the time I realized it wasn't, I was already hooked. It's similar to Lolita that way (my favourite book) - you pick it up thinking it must be terribly perverted, but you're in for a surprise.
Come for the filth, stay for the unbearably powerful awesomeness and beauty.
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I got my mum to watch it cause I'm alone at home so I watch by myself because friends don't like it. My mum thought it was okay, but she had no time. Her favourite character was none. but I've rewatched it several times on Yuuutube, but they took the episodes off...
One day I hope they make a sequel or a remake of the same show.
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Me and me brother used to watch it to take the piss out the campy animation and talk about how creepy the characters were. He's not an anime fan per say but if he can take the piss out of something he's all for it.
Only person I've ever converted, sadly.
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