I've stopped myself from making an Ohtori/Truman Show thread a couple of times.

They're both bubble worlds, but in SKU it's a subtle thing while the Truman Show is literally inside a dome. Ohtori seems far more insidious, in that even when someone leaves (Saionji, Shiori) they can't actually escape and must return.

Even though he has a great deal of influence over Ohtori, I don't think Akio has deliberately been depriving students of adult relationships. (Aside from, possibly, Utena.) It seems that parents in the series are just naturally neglectful, from what we can see of Touga, Nanami, Saionji, Miki and Kozue's non-interaction with them.

Actually, it's pretty clear that he's actively manipulating Miki's parents through Anthy in the eternally confusing "Anthy as Miki's stepmother" scene. A lot of this is speculation since Akio never looks directly at the screen and says, "I am depriving them of their parents. Mwahaha." But it would make a lot of sense. After all, it's the fear of the 'outside world' that keeps a lot of them in the cold but comfortable embrace of Ohtori. By painting a very negative view of adults, many of the students grow to fear the world that adulthood represents.

I think we can safely say Akio and Anthy have been fucking with every aspect of the duelists lives for a long time. To think so many students parents would give up control of their kids lives so willingly is obtuse. If Akio wants control over someones mind, he gets it. Super creepy. I don't think much is out of their influence. If some chick can pull a sword out of her fucking tits and her brother can drive a car while sprawled out on its hood, wouldn't you think they could influence more than just a school.... Time, people, floating castles, roses, anatomy, virginity, motorized vehicles....all their bitches.

Just how old do you really think they are? I mean, its relative, right....doesn't matter. In that case, do you think that Anthy is more adult than child at this point? I don't think she's got any sentiment of childhood left in her. I think she's just as much of an adult role as Akio.  Some endless- no, eternal- loop of rose-chopping action gave her that, perhaps. 'Spira mirabilis' right? Just how long has Ohtori been going on. It's a time mindfuck. Trying to figure out some sort of time frame for the series gives me a migraine.

Voice of Athena wrote:

To think so many students parents would give up control of their kids lives so willingly is obtuse.

I wouldn't be so sure of that, that boarding schools and the like are so common in a lot of cultures does suggest that there's an idea parents have that childrearing should not always be their job, or that they're not always the best people to be doing it.

On one hand, I really want to believe Akio is so mindnumbingly calculatingly evil that he effectively raises his own student council members by pulling strings right from the night of their conception, but this ties in a bit to the whole question of whether Ohtori Academy isn't just really the 'real world' itself, instead of a bubble. Reality is full of backstories that line up with the members of the student council. It's not uncommon for someone like Touga to have negligent parents. It's not uncommon for a child like Miki to have been so pressured to succeed on his parents' account that he distrusts the intention of an adult figure even when they seem encouraging. And while it's strangely suspicious Utena's parents die in a car crash, I really doubt it was necessary for Akio to mow her parents over. Life finds opportunities for him, and that is, in and of itself, something scary about both life and about him. All he has to do is sit back and watch and nudge people just a little bit, and life conspires to give him what he wants. (ohohoh someone get my gross misuse of that)

It isn't necessary for him to so carefully orchestrate the twisted family lives of these characters. Their parents did that just fine. To assume Akio masterminds every waking moment of the lives of these children and their parents absolves their parents of a lot of the wrongdoing, which I think defeats the purpose of Akio being himself a sort of representative for the negative 'adult world'. It's the question you get in Bible class: If the devil made you do it, is it really your fault? Akio didn't need to make Touga and Nanami's parents negligent. Their fallen adults of his sort, they're bastards on their own.

Thaaaaat said...no one's mentioned Kanae's mom that I've seen, and she's the best example of a parent figure whose negative influence has been directed, at least in part, by Akio.

Ragnarok wrote:

Giovanna wrote:

Thaaaaat said...no one's mentioned Kanae's mom that I've seen, and she's the best example of a parent figure whose negative influence has been directed, at least in part, by Akio.

I mentioned her. *Flails.*

You are free to beat me about the shoulders and neck. I am sorry.

It really does seem anymore like everyone BUT parents raise children. I gotta wonder though with the job some of them do, is Akio really that much worse?

I feel like if anyone set up the coffin incident, it was Dios himself in order to thwart Akio. In the end, it all worked in to his advantage; Utena saved Anthy (or whatever the hell happened in that episode) just like he wanted her to and Akio failed. Dios knew he didn't have much time left, so he did what little he could to get the ball rolling for the destruction of his fallen self.

It isn't necessary for him to so carefully orchestrate the twisted family lives of these characters. Their parents did that just fine. To assume Akio masterminds every waking moment of the lives of these children and their parents absolves their parents of a lot of the wrongdoing, which I think defeats the purpose of Akio being himself a sort of representative for the negative 'adult world'. It's the question you get in Bible class: If the devil made you do it, is it really your fault? Akio didn't need to make Touga and Nanami's parents negligent. Their fallen adults of his sort, they're bastards on their own.

You're right in that there was probably a lot he didn't get involved in, and that the boarding schools are often just set pu that way. However, there's no doubt that the absence of parental involvement works in his advantage. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Akio no doubt manipulates SOME people's relationships with their parents. His status as one of the solitary adults that plays any importance in the students' lives probably does work to his advantage. For instance, it's quite clear that Utena often regards him as a father-figure before they start dating, or at least someone wiser and more mature than she can trust. I would also not put it past him, bastard that he is, to not filter out teachers like the piano instructor.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he goes around paying parents to beat the shit out of their children before they come to Ohtori. Nor does he run over half the parents with his car to orphan their children. Nor does he personally sleep with every woman in Japan to father a bunch of illegitimate bastard kids to send them to - acually, that one might have some substance.

However, its clear that he does it some extent when it suits his needs. Children who are not monitored by their parents are naturally easier to manipulate. And as confusing as the image of Anthy behind Miki's father may be, it is a pretty direct signal that he chose to interfere. Does he do that to absolutely everyone? No, because not everyone's really a player in his game.

Also, saying he orchestrates that much evil would be giving him way too much credit.

Even though there's a distinct lack of adults shown in the series, I don't think that they're really as scarce as they appear to be. There must be enough teachers to properly hold classes, but we only see three? Four at most. Two of whom show sexual interest in students and one who carries a riding crop around with her...

Anyway, there's also bound to be servants at places like the Kiryuu residence. While they wouldn't be in an authoritarian role, they'd at least be present. Yet we never even see these types, Touga and Nanami are the only ones we ever see living there. Likewise, Miki and Kozue appear to be on their own, despite sharing a room at their off campus home. We see Wakaba go into town for food, which is jarring in its irregularity of a student being off campus anywhere but where they sleep.

What I mean to say is; the imagery of a world without proper adults and the 'reality' of it can't properly sync up. Adults aren't shown because they aren't fulfilling their roles as much as that they're absent altogether.

Giovanna wrote:

You are free to beat me about the shoulders and neck. I am sorry.

Your shoulders and neck aren't what I had in mind.

Sorry if I went back to the very beginning, but WHAT!? Miki's step-mom is Anthy!?

Well, when I was watching it, it kinda felt it is.. But, the woman's face wasn't even shown in the anime..
What episode was this? I'll try loading one at VEOH.. @_@

Ragnarok wrote:

It would probably be required to enter Ohtori to actually see how it differs from the outside world. From a distance it just looks like a fancy school with a really big tower.

Akio would make it big enough to be seen from miles away, wouldn't he. Talk about power-complex.....


Ho ho ho ho....

I don't really see the scene in episode 26 fucking with my head too much. I pretty much stuck with the interpretation as it being a symbolic reference to the power of the Ohtori "A" team outta the coffin of a campus.


Fu fu fu.  Are we thinking too hard...... fu fu fu....

I always took that scene as being more of an illusion than anything else. Just as Anthy was able to manipulate Mikage into thinking she was Mamiya, perhaps she was able to manipulate Mr. Kaoru into thinking she was his pretty little arm candy. She is a witch, after all. We the viewers never saw Mamiya through anyone's eyes but Mikage's. In fact, we can assume that no one else ever saw him/her. Even when Kanae was given the black rose, she had her back to Mamiya. I don't really think that Anthy was able to disguise herself to look like Mamiya, but she was able to decieve Mikage into seeing what he wanted. I always imagined the same to be true of Mr. Kaoru. Seeing her back, she clearly looks like Anthy. But perhaps through his eyes, she is the twins new mother, encouraging him to call his son and inform him of their wedding.