Now, I haven't studied this, so bear in mind that mine is a relatively uninformed opinion. Also, I will be making a lot of generalizations, but understand that's necessary to get my point across.

I once theorized that the underlying difference between American and Japanese society is the emphasis on imagination. Their technology and society is a mix of old traditional values and the burgeoning artistic communities, and the two tend to blend in the form of technology and entertainment. Many Japanese inventions provide a stark contrast in mentality to American ones. For examples, their designs of robots that are meant to be aesthetically pleasing and humanoid while ours tend to focus on function and practicality. Anime is filled with images and stories of technology gone to impossible new heights, where humans can connect with robots on a deeper level than that of tools. Where Americans place emphasis on function in a coolly practical mindset, the Japanese do the same but with a lot more imagination involved. They speak of forming relationships with cars, the beauty of form, and the possibility of an extraordinary future.

The popularity of Anime reflects this widespread love of imagination. Where Americans often like stories that are gritty and pseudo-realistic, the Japanese youth prefer the presence of the extraordinary. A lot of this is the product of culture. Where Americans have largely diverse backgrounds and are often disconnected from their heritage, Japan still maintains many of its traditions and superstitions. Japanese mythology is almost always present in some form or another in Anime, showing the gap bridged between the modern society and the old.

So...I guess the only way I could summarize that would be to boil it down to one word: imagination. The emphasis on imagination, and the rewards for  pursuing it.

Adrasteia wrote:

The mention of imagination also brings up a stark contrast with American comics - no matter how many superheroes and superpowers they have, it's rare to see pink haired girls transforming into cars, or robots growing humans out of their heads, in western comics. The Japanese imagination is definitely more surreal in ways than what we usually see in western comics.

I'd agree with that -- and I come into this as a non-American with very little interest in American comics and a varying level of fascination with Japanese manga. I always thought it odd that I got into manga for a time, because I have never liked comic books. Since I was a wee kid I've read novels, and liked it fine. I didn't even watch a lot of cartoons when I was little -- or even much television at all. I was always about words; pictures were kind of take it or leave it. And then I ran across anime when I was fourteen, and my views changed somewhat. Why was that? I've never quite worked it out, but to be honest I've come to think it is because anime -- and given most of it is based upon manga, we can draw the analogy back to manga as well -- never attempted to baby me. I mean, there's anime based at younger audiences out there, sure, but I find even that doesn't tend to shy away from speaking of things American comics/cartoons don't usually touch with a ten foot pole, unless said comics/cartoons are firmly intended for a "mature" audience. Japanese manga/anime seems to assume children can judge things for themselves, and will know when to ask for clarification. I never really got that from American-written things, unless you count "Sailor Moon Says!" Which I don't.

This isn't to say, mind you, that American-produced things have always been this way. It's more a product of the evolution of Western society to this incredibly PC-state. And this is because only last night I was watching The Goonies for a giggle, and I swear to God I wonder what in the hell happened to the world between when I was six and then when I was twenty-six. I had exactly the same thing while watching The Princess Bride the other night. These are family movies, and you can bet your ass nowadays they'd never have made it to the screen the way they are. I'm not saying kids' movies have all darkness removed from them, because they don't. It's just far more sanitised, far less real. And I suppose that's it. Japanese anime and manga may have more far-fetched premises than their American counterparts, but because of the fashion in which the story is told and the development of two-dimensional drawings into fully-fledged characters, I've always believed them a lot more.

...but once again, I have to say it's not all crap, that which comes from America. Talking about this puts me in the mood to watch Gargoyles, actually. Of course my DVDs are floating somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. Dammit.

Adrasteia wrote:

I should mention that, as an adult, I adore many western comics. In fact, I typically read more of them than manga. But it was manga which eased me into the graphic novel medium, and without it I don't think I would have touched something like Sandman or Watchmen with a 10-foot pole.

I had a couple of Sandman comics around here at one point -- they were gifts from a friend. I found the premise...interesting, but the execution was not really me. I have to admit the only comics I have ever bought were Jhonen Vasquez ones. I bought them out of curiosity, and to this day still feel this weird guilt for laughing at what was in them. It's much like my relationship with the Bret Easton Ellis novel American Psycho, come to think of it.

Last edited by Clarice (12-05-2007 08:52:24 PM)

I would point out that the idea that American comics equals superheroes is - and practically always has been - a fallacy based on who gets the biggest mainstream market visibility.  Heck, Zap! Comix outsold, in its time, most its contemporary supertights books, and that was thirty plus years ago.  There are more prominence given to those books (wilfully ignoring the entire comic strip collection issue for reasons that never quite make sense), yes, but there is and always has been variety present in the market.  RAW regularly outsold Marvel Comics' output of the same era, too, and surely Calvin & Hobbes collections trample all over virtually anything where a guy puts on a pervert suit for justice.

Similarly, I can't really let an assertion that American comics design elements for functionality, while the Japanese comics' err on the side of aesthetically pleasing designwork.  The aesthetics of one or another artist or project may not appeal, on an individual basis, but it's the Japanese end who came up with that 'flying parts' (Studio Nue term, wasn't it) derogatory term for placing look over functionality in robots.  Nobody ever expected a Sentinel or (to expand this to English-language versus Japanese-lang markets) an ABC Warrior to be buildable and functional.  H.E.R.B.I.E., any number of Batplanes, or what have you, would be much harder to diagram internals that look reasonable than your average Gundam.

The main difference, I think, on a sociological level, is how accepted something is in public.  Japanese comics - not every comic or every genre, but on the whole - is more acceptable to sit on bus home from work with in Japan than any form of comic is in the States.  And non-superhero comics are immediately connected, in most circumstances to porn or not considered comics, but some weird bastard thing.  People are very comfortable saying 'I never read comics' when they mean that they only read Richie Rich[/i] or [b]Archie, a Sin City, a Ghost World or random Adam Warren book.  Outside of the manga/gekiga argument, I haven't noticed (in my extremely limited experience) a similar breakdown or tendency in Japanese readers.

No one wants to admit that Road to Perdition  is far closer to its comicbook roots than the Spider-man movie, because no one, in general, wants to connect Road to Perdition with comics.  Or, for that matter, Peanuts, Get Fuzzy or whatever else strip  will eventually be collected into fat books left in bathrooms and waiting rooms all over the U.S. to be read by millions.  Could you imagine a similar denial that Urusei Yatsura in movie form has nothing to do with the comic, or that Cutey Honey is comics-derived, but Ichi the Killer's not?

I actually, now, really want to know if there is a similar breakdown of denial in Japan.  I somehow doubt it.

The for-geeks thing likely holds true for both cultures, with the hip hot thing of the moment being an exception, or a particular magazine's material being exempt.

Last edited by Decrescent Daytripper (12-05-2007 11:17:25 PM)

ArsenicForBreakfast wrote:

American comics are geared toward a very specific audience for the most part (namely, adolescent boys) whereas you can find a manga for literally anybody.

I think this is probably one of the big ones.

While I agree 100% percent with Jellineck's comments here, another thing I've noticed is that Japanese manga produces slice of life pieces that I have never seen in the American comic scene. This may be on account of the wider audience, and itself a better medium for the imaginative material, but Japanese manga seems often to take reality (being in school, living in an apartment, etc) and turn it on its head. In this way manga consciously attempts to relate to and name the type of fan it has, where American comics seem more careful about doing that. Manga is full of the ordinary boy or girl getting some gorgeous hottie, where in American comics that I've seen, said gorgeous hottie ends up with someone that would bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to anyone likely to read the comic. I suppose you could say in all its imaginativeness, Japan tries harder to relate to the reader, where American comics quite consciously exclude the reader, relying instead on how far removed the story is from every day life, even if it's still rooted in a deeper reality.

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone. I have some fresh and intelligent ideas to toss into my paper.

Emiemipoemi wrote:

Adrasteia, I think you might want to pick this book up. While in Ringling, one of our required course books was Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art by Scott McCloud. Now, this guy is a LITTLE pretentious, however, HUEG chunks of the book are dedicated to this discussion here. The style differences between Eastern and Western comics and how they're being utilized by each other.

Actually, when I told my the prof of my Graphic Novel course that I wanted to compare Japanese comics with American ones, he took this book off his shelf and lent it to me. It's really helpful, for both a casual reader and somebody deeply interested in the medium. I was especially pleased to see Rose of Versailles referenced a couple times, as I've dedicated over a page and a half already to shoujo comics alone in my paper.

Which brings me to you other point - I share those exact feelings on manga and comics. If I'm going to read a graphic novel, be it American or Japanese, I'm looking for decent artwork and an incredible story. I grew out of the 'harem' and 'magical girl' mangas ages ago, and unfortunately these are the types which flood our comic stores. But the reason I personally feel so positive about the impact and future of manga is exactly as ArsenicForBreakfast said; it doesn't matter if you've read a dozen mangas and hated them all - there are so many different genres that anyone and, as seen in Japan, everyone can find a manga to read and enjoy. For me, something like Naruto is dull and repetitive, but hand me Petshop of Horrors and I'll be engrossed for days.

Giovanna, you make a very good point. As much as any adolescent boy loves to live in a fantasy world of strength and testosterone, it's difficult(impossible in some cases) to relate to a character who is a cookie-cutter 'manly man'. And as a woman, I find many of the women in American comics also to be have incredibly stiff and formal personalities. They seem more like well-endowed robots than people.

I don't mean to bash on American comics, actually, and as I mentioned before, I read more of them than manga(Emiemipoemi, you have excellent taste in comics! I love all three of the ones you've mentioned - am I guessing right to say you're a Vertigo fan?) But the American comics I enjoy are obscure and hidden deep within the comic subculture, while manga are everywhere in Japan. My professor mentioned in our first class how unfortunate it is that an adult should feel the need to hide their comic when reading in public. Japan is nothing like this; manga cafes decorate every street corner, and it's never surprising to see an adult businessman drinking coffee and reading a comic book.

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

I would point out that the idea that American comics equals superheroes is - and practically always has been - a fallacy based on who gets the biggest mainstream market visibility.

Absolutely, and it is the saddest thing. I hate when people see me reading Preacher, scoff, and make the remark that comics and superheroes are for little boys(mostly my parents do this, actually). The bias towards the market makes it difficult to anyone to study comics seriously, because the general public can't see to break their set image of Superman and X-Men as the comic norm. The reason Japanese comics fascinate me so much is they have all of the superhero aspects of Western comics, but also the option to avoid the genre entirely and read something different. Something fresh. It's mass popularity gives manga the option to splay off in so many different directions, and please everyone.

And, as mentioned above, having comics for women is a huge step for graphic novels. Apparently, 60% of manga readers are female. o_o That's surreal.

Last edited by Adrasteia (12-06-2007 06:44:07 PM)

I've just got one thing to add to the excellent points that you guys made. It's true that there's manga for just about everybody. Any topic, any theme, any age-- if it exists, there's manga of it. The really interesting thing, IMO, is just how accepted manga (and anime) is in Japan compared to comics in the West. Last time I checked, more manga is sold in Japan than any other type of printed material. It has an importance in Japanese culture that our comics have never really had for us. (Have you ever seen a doujinshi of, say, Superman? I sure haven't.) I'm not sure why this is, culturally speaking, but it might have something to do with the very visual nature of the Japanese language. In any case, I think it's interesting.

OnionPrince wrote:

Have you ever seen a doujinshi of, say, Superman? I sure haven't.

I would LOVE to see that. Actually, I've been dying to find some fun Batman/Robin spoofs. You just have so much to work with.

And you're right on the mark with the mainstream appeal of manga. I mention the common sight of manga cafes spread throughout Japan.

tohubohu, that's a great point. One of the primary reasons manga appeal to me is apparent lack of moral restrictions in content. I'm not saying that it's good to go out and snort cocaine off an alter in a church, but it's great to have the opportunity to read about it. Censorship is a ridiculous concept, and even worse when put into effect when unnecessary. If Japanese people think it's ok to show children lesbian sailor scouts and cross-dressing villains, then I don't see why North American children should be sheltered.

I agree that American comics definitely have their 'rebellious' writers - anything by Vertigo, for instance, is likely to contain controversial content, and breach the accepted norm.

I guess I should have specified how Japan seems more lenient for exposing the public to this concepts. I don't know much about Japanese politics, but Japan has been better for showing risque topics on television which youth are able to watch. Oniisama e, which was broadcast a few decades ago, dealt with issues of suicide, drug use, and lesbianism. However, when it was brought to America it never finished showing on tv due to its content. Japan has a different regiment for what's allowed to be shown in comics, because they don't share the western belief that comics are for children. Western comics have their outlaws, but they are hidden deep in the american subculture. The mainstream culture doesn't approach such issue nearly as much as the Japanese do.

For instance, I can't think of any gay superheroes in Marvel/DC, but manga is filled with gay characters.

That makes me want to read superhero comics a little more. I always wanted to read a story called Enigma about a gay superhero, but it was only one book, and not a genuine mavel/dc character.

Maybe I'm being a little shallow, but I think the idea of a gay superhero like Superman is really adorable. I'd love to read about something like that.

I always wondered if Wonderwoman was a lesbian because of all of her sapphic one-liners, but according to my prof, she was created to be the ideal female model for boys. o_o The whole bondage thing must just be a kink.

That being said, I haven't read any Wonderwoman myself, so I don't know firsthand.

That list is great! Thanks! I've been working on a compilation of LBGT info for the resource center on campus, and these links will prove very useful. Most of the webcomics I found were yaoi.