redRogue wrote:

Except Touga. Unless I'm missing something, which I probably am, Touga, not counting Akio and possibly Ruka, is the only main character that has not been overtly infuriated about anything.

Hmm, I thought Akio seemed pissed when Anthy was laughing with Utena and Wakaba, actually.

But Touga? Hard to say. He just seems like the kind of person who doesn't get angry. Or if he does, he hides it well. Maybe he was angry when Akio swept Utena away after the horse-accident, but we can't see his face, so that's up for interpretation.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

redRouge wrote:

So, tell me your thoughts guys. What do you think would totally piss off our favorite bastard playboy?

Well, there's this:

Oh yeah, he did look pretty angry there.

It takes a lot to enrage Touga...but...I think if anybody physically hurt Utena he would lose it. The same might go for Nanami but at best he loves her like a puppy until after the revolution. It's sad that he rarely shows love for his own sister.

Snicker and imitate him in a chipmunk voice while he's on top of you. Give him a butt-plug custom-made out of Akio's hair and say it's to remind him of who his ass belongs to. Stand around campus while he's walking with his sister and exclaim, "Oh look! It's the prettiest little princess in all of Ohtori! And Nanami too!"

I think that would do it, especially if you were looking to number your days at the school.

Giovanna wrote:

I don't think he allows himself open displays of anger. What he does allow...is women. Saionji smacks them, Touga bangs them. Their emotional content is very similar.

I think it's worth pointing out that their basic attitudes in general mirror eachother rather neatly. Sai is known for having a short temper: He's quick to anger, and overall doesn't shy away from honestly expressing his emotional state in any given situation. With that in mind, perhaps it's possible Touga's mindset is directly influenced by his perspective of his "friend". I could easily see his thought process being consciously driven by the idea that he doesn't approve of how readily Sai makes himself vulnerable, and one might even go so far as to say he strives to be the exact opposite for that reason alone.

Oh when I'm talking about displays of anger I mean more the Saionji WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FUCK YOU YOU DON'T KNOW ME I DO WHAT I WANT stuff. Touga's probably patient enough to wait until his display of anger is masked in something else, like a sex metaphor or a power play. Certainly, he's had long enough watching Saionji get mad to know about how productive that is. By the show, Yasha just said she doubt he thinks he feels anger at all. And I can't really think of any immediate reactions he has that aren't shock more than anger. He's shocked when he loses the duel, he's shocked when Akio is all LOLS MY PEENER SMELL IT DOES IT SMELL FAMILI-OH WAIT THAT'S RIGHT UTENA REJECTED YOU. If he gets truly angry anywhere, it was in the second arc, withdrawn from the world, where his disgust at his failure could simmer.

Frustrated, he does seem to get frustrated with Nanami and Saionji at times, but it's not seriously frustration, it seems more like the 'frustrated' you get when a kitten keeps getting tangled in your hair.

I think you're totally right that he acts entitled, but I think that means living up to the rich asshole persona, which includes being too above the filth to acknowledge it. Someone verbally accosting him in the middle of lunch period is probably going to get a comeback to turn the crowd against them, not an onslaught, immediate or delayed, of anger. His sense of entitlement is so built up around him that it's shocking more than angering when it's challenged, in part because he's naive. He thinks he's got it all down, that he's had it hard already and has proven himself better than any other jackass in the school.

Which is a funny contrast to Akio, who does get immediately visibly angry when his entitlement is challenged. (The instability that builds as Anthy seems less firmly until his thumb results in more than one angry display.)

Katzenklavier wrote:

In many ways, his affect seems restricted and muted. Not only does he seem to never express rage, but there are few indications to suggest passion, joy, sorrow, etc. Even when he's professing his love for Utena near the end, he's intellectualizing the experience and conceptualizing it in terms of princesses, princes, and generic fairytale fluff.

Emotionally speaking, I find Touga to be just as much of a "computer-like man" as Mikage, as both their villain moments have to do with their intellectualizing their options and chosing what would serve them purpose - even at the cost of hurting others; I'd go further to say Touga's hesitance to drive Akio's car in EP 25 an extension of his wooden, computer-lite reasoning (underaged boys don't drive . . . not even on Roads to Ends of the World).

I personally buy Yoji E's theory that TV Touga's emotionally computer-like state - coexisting with his rent-boy-ish sexuality - to be a side effect of the childhood sexual abuse he suffered (like in the Movie); others may disagree though.

Atropos wrote:

Touga strikes me as not a genuine psychopath, but someone who thinks he is and therefore tries to live up to that image despite it being against his first nature.

This made me laugh for some reason. However, I can see it that way as well. That it's some sort of defense-mechanism. Real emotions just get in the way, after all.

Touga's a kid trying to be adult, he's a teenage abuse victim acting callous and cool because that's how daddy-Akio seems to play and he's top of the food chain.

I know some people don't like the sex abuse angle, but even if it's not explicitly called that in the TV series, it still is. And I can't read Touga without that blanket of traumatized over him.

Atropos wrote:

I dunno about that; isn't the age of consent in Japan like absurdly low? In any case, Akio is masquerading as a university student - not significantly older than some of the teenage cast.

He's masquerading as "not that much older, but adult and in a power position," but he is, of course, considerably older and more powerful, and Touga's at least more aware of that than others.

Age of consent aside, to my mind, it's still very much a power-playing and abuse scenario. I just mean, he's not dead behind the eyes, but if he looks it sometimes, it's maybe because he wishes he was that cool to life. "I'm the Devil, I'm going to mess with everyone you know, and if you're nice and keep your mouth shut, you can ride in the front of the car and visit the back sometimes."

(Or, is Touga much more ignorant than that? I honestly can't remember and need to rewatch. My gut says "this is a guy who's been raped and intimidated a lot," though. The predator's groomed assistant type.)