This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#1 | Back to Top10-31-2010 05:46:01 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
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Utena has no friends

I don't know if this has already been discussed if so please point me to that discussion.

Am I the only one who thinks Utena doesn't have any friends besides Wakaba?

In the first episodes when Utena is nagging Himemiya about her social life Utena's only friend is Wakaba. This surprises me because Tenjou is always telling Anthy to get more friends.

When having lunch or just hanging around in school Utena is only with Wakaba. And for someone with so many fans Utena spends all her time only with Shinohara and later on with Himemiya. In later episode I have seen her with Juri or Miki having tea but that is just once or twice.

Why do you think we only see Utena hanging with Wakaba or Anthy?
a) Utena has friends I'm blind and need to re watch the series.
b) Wakaba is so clingy that she scared everyone off.
c) Himemiya scares everyone off.
d) With her special uniform and strange hair color Utena is intimidating.
e) Showing Utena with other character would waste screen time so the animator condensed all possible friends in Wakaba. emot-tongue
f) none of the abode. emot-wink


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
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#2 | Back to Top10-31-2010 06:21:10 PM

Absolute Apocalypse
Saionji Slapper
Registered: 08-24-2010
Posts: 25

Re: Utena has no friends

What you're saying about Utena, could also be said about Touga, Saionji, Juri, Miki, etc. but it is implied they do have friends outside screen, unlike "that weird girl" Anthy.

Its natural for these kind of shows to force the protagonists to just hang around a certain circle of friends, otherwise the cast would be to damn long to remember and too much time would go wasted in pointless scenes that contribute nothing to the main story.

Not saying that most filler episodes weren't pointless though.


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#3 | Back to Top10-31-2010 07:38:12 PM

HonorableShadow
Thorn of Death
From: Ohio
Registered: 11-03-2006
Posts: 482

Re: Utena has no friends

I think e is most likely.  It seems like the fact that we're shown Utena's fangirls squeeing over her is meant to establish to the audience that Utena is popular and has friends.  Same with the shots of her having tea with Miki and Juri. Besides that, it looks like she plays a lot of sports -  I'm sure she's friends with some of her teammates at the very least.  It's just not important to show her hanging out with random people, so they don't.


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#4 | Back to Top11-01-2010 02:17:17 PM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: Utena has no friends

I actually think there's a pretty important point to be made here. All of the main so-called "special" characters really are quite isolated. They have reputations that separate and (in their views) set them above the main school populace, thus rendering close connections difficult if not impossible. Their few connections (mainly with the rest of the Student Council, etc) are built on competition, ego, and often mistrust.  I for one think this is quite deliberate. It makes them all the more vulnerable when they need to be used - they don't have any actual support structure. The only people they have to confide it will probably use that information to abuse them. Utena was very lucky she had Wakaba, because the girl was a true friend who supported her in times of need (and hence why she was also targeted by BR and later emotionally wooed by Akio). As for a big group of friends, she was another one of the school celebrities, who everyone loved and got special privileges...but not many people actually willing to hang out with her (for some reasons).

So yeah. Ironically, the most popular kids in Ohtori were the ones with the fewest actual friends.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#5 | Back to Top11-04-2010 10:50:38 AM

Riri-kins
World's End
From: Cloud Nine
Registered: 09-22-2008
Posts: 2354

Re: Utena has no friends

Utena is naturally friendly and approachable, so I find it hard to believe she didn't have others.  Yet despite her popularity I think she's the type who only needs one or two best friends rather than a whole bunch of good ones. That's why we see her with Anthy or Wakaba most of the time.


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My Utena fanfiction: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2000115/Riri-kins

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#6 | Back to Top11-04-2010 04:09:43 PM

Ragnarok
Caption Captor
From: Canada
Registered: 10-20-2006
Posts: 4472
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Re: Utena has no friends

I would say for the most part the answer is e, also known as the law of conservation of detail. It's not that Utena doesn't necessarily have other friends, it's that having a large group of friends would only get in the way of the plot. Wakaba is far and away her closest friend (at least until things really develope with Anthy, but that's another story) so when a friend is needed she fills the role. But for all the isolation talk, Utena approaches and befriends Shiori as soon as Shiori returns to Ohtori. She plays lots of sports with other people, at least some of whom probably consider her a sort of friend. Miki is comfortable around here, but generally only spends time in a social setting to relay plot relevant information.

To tackle the rest of the student council is much easier. Touga doesn't have any friends by choice, except for and because of Saionji. Saionji... same thing. Nanami thinks she has friends, she's too self-absorbed to realize she doesn't have any. Juri scares everyone. Miki is somewhat shy and has a lot of issues which keep him from socializing unless he has to. The exceptions being his pursuit of Anthy, his tolerance of Nanami and the shared interests the seitokai have. Though if they didn't want to be isolated, they'd probably have difficulty making friends.


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#7 | Back to Top11-05-2010 02:22:19 AM

Katzenklavier
Wondrous Sexual Eggplant.
From: Back of your thoughts.
Registered: 09-13-2008
Posts: 1120

Re: Utena has no friends

Riri-kins: Utena is naturally friendly and approachable, so I find it hard to believe she didn't have others.  Yet despite her popularity I think she's the type who only needs one or two best friends rather than a whole bunch of good ones.

Yes, but she's also very very different. I think you have to take the show's context into account. Even if the show isn't necessarily set in Japan, it definitely includes Japanese cultural norms. The foremost being collectivism. In Japan, conformity is highly encouraged. It reinforces the values of modesty and humility - particularly in women. Hence why Utena received harassment from the guidance counselor/etc. and why she was considered such a campus novelty. The Japanese also depend on strict social codes to dictate considerate interactions with others. It is better for them to save face than risk interaction with an unknown element. Sure, the girls gather around and giggle about Utena, granting her a sort of pseudo-masculine role. But how many actually approach her? What similarities would they have to discuss? I think it's pretty telling that they all generally stand off to the distance, watching.

As for the other Council members, it's kind of the same thing. You just don't casually approach someone much higher on the hierarchy. There's a very respectful protocol involved. You may receive on from your superior, as Juri's student sometimes did, but there's still a very distinct boundary. Therefore I stick with my point: quite ironically, despite their popularity, most of the main characters don't have many actual friends. Mostly just subordinates and fans. And that's intentional because an isolated person is an easily manipulated target.


We must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

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#8 | Back to Top11-05-2010 11:03:30 AM

satyreyes
no, definitely no cons
From: New Orleans, Louisiana
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 10328
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Re: Utena has no friends

I came into this thread thinking "Of course Utena has friends."  But to my surprise, I find myself agreeing with Katz's first post: besides Wakaba, and the unreliable support of Anthy and Juri and Miki, Utena doesn't really have any friends.  What clinched it for me was the observation that Akio targeted Wakaba to isolate Utena; I think that's exactly right, and if Utena had other good friends besides Wakaba it wouldn't have worked.  I'm sure she's got a few off-screen acquaintances, but no one she can talk to about Akio.  No good friends.

But -- and this is something I don't think anyone has said yet -- I think that Utena thinks she has a ton of friends.  Look at all those screaming admirers!  And then look back at Utena's sorta primitive understanding of what friendship is.  Utena may hold her admirers at arm's length, but I think she thinks of all of them as her friends.  So when she acts like a popular girl who's everyone's friend, it's probably because she thinks she is a popular girl who's everyone's friend.  At least, until she gets herself into the kind of real trouble that you need a friend to untangle, and she discovers that her acquaintances aren't friends after all (and perhaps that the Student Council members are better friends than she thought).

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#9 | Back to Top11-06-2010 02:44:03 PM

teyhy
High Tripper
From: Ecuador
Registered: 04-27-2010
Posts: 245
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Re: Utena has no friends

I don't think Miki and Juri could be considered Utena's friend until episode 37. But neither Miki nor Juri ever tell Utena that Akio is End of the world. Nanami does tell her (ironically) but not in a way that air-headed Utena would understand.

Another point that calls my atention is how Wakaba didn't complain (at least on screen) that Utena spent all her time with Anthy. Manga-Wakaba does complain about it. Was Himemiya even trying to isolating Utena? Anthy is very good at what she does; be it manipulate a whole school or help Utena win a duel when it suits her. Becuase of  this I wonder why Himemiya didn't try harder to separate Tenjou from Wakaba. An isolated duelist is an easily manipulated duelist.

Last edited by teyhy (12-01-2010 12:01:22 PM)


Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - H. Berlioz.
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#10 | Back to Top11-30-2010 10:49:17 PM

nekozoya
Wakaba Wrangler
From: California! May there be sun!
Registered: 11-30-2010
Posts: 16

Re: Utena has no friends

for some reason, I'm thinking that Wakaba beats up anyone who gets in a meter's distance near Utena....school-chef

Last edited by nekozoya (11-30-2010 10:49:44 PM)


etc-saiowank Need I say more?

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#11 | Back to Top12-01-2010 03:11:14 AM

SexingTouga24/7/365
is on a BOAT!
Registered: 12-10-2006
Posts: 2267

Re: Utena has no friends

I think that this is a very good question and an interesting angle on the Utena having friends theory; she has various levels of friends/acquaintances in a verity of combination's.  Wakaba best friend, Anthy good friend/pet project/ best friend, Miki & Juri very good co-workers/ good/casual acquaintances, other people in the school good and casual acquaintances (not included due to not being relevant to the plot), also due to her friendly personality a number of folks whom she is on good terms with.

To clarify (not that Utena really cares for it I would suppose) you can guess how she would treat friends/potential friends using how she interacts and treats the folks she encounters.  In addition, to being a popular girl, she is nice and will interact with her general fan girls/classmates;  in a manor that is close to equality. In comparison, to how the other members of the student council might treat their Fan boys/girls I would guess that the most kind/non-manipulative and interactive would be Miki and Utena. Not that they don't have various blocking people/activities and or personality issues of their own but I can also see them actuality wanting friends as well as being approachable. So when one or two students have a genuine conversation after all the squeeing and fan girl/boy stuff they might remain/elevate themselves to a higher level of acquaintance albeit it slowly.

Sorry about that going on a bit; however Utena, I think has at the very worse a large group of friendly acquaintances that have friend potential.


"If all the world is a stage and all the people players"...then I demand a less shitty part or the ability to get off of the stage. Slowly my sanity slides, slipping, swirling, spiraling...Save Me I need Sleep...Shattering Soon. school-devil "RukaxTouga equals the Fourth of July" MY patriotic celebration...FUCK ME TOUGA AND RUKA NOW!! etc-wankgirl etc-wankdude

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