Lady Nilamarthiel wrote:

I. Hate. TsuzukixHisoka from Yami no Matsuei. Why? BECAUSE TSUZUKI IS OVER 100 YEARS OLD OMG. And Hisoka is, like, 16 or 17 at that time. Also, Hisoka says that he thinks of Tsuzuki as FAMILY.

Man, someone else out there agrees that HisokaxTsuzuki isn't a good pairing? Man, I thought I was the only one. I also felt there wasn't really all that much chemistry between the two in the canon, anyway, although I felt like the reader/viewer was supposed to see that there was. I actually think HijirixTsuzuki works better, honestly.

And its nice to see there are other people out there who dislike HarryxDraco. Actually, I think I could like it if the vast majority of the fanfics of it didn't royally suck. I read one once that was extremely good, and I've read a few that were ok, but for the most part its just fangirl/boy word vomit.

I think I, for the most part, dislike pairings that involve enemies getting together - especially at the sacrifice of a friend who likes the character in question. I'm such a sap for the best-friend-with-crush-on-main-character type.

Haha, this made me think of another pairing I dislike - ShizumaxNagisa (Strawberry Panic). Nagisa should've gotten together with Tamao in the end

Raven Nightshade wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

I like Usagi x Seiya as friends, maybe boyfriend-girlfriend but not as lovers. It just wouldn't last, they're both too immature and too much like each other.

Those could be blamed on the anti-Mamoru movement. I recognize his uselessness, but there is no Uten--I mean, Chibi-Usa without him.

Ugh. Mamoru. He's just so... plain. I didn't like him much in the first season, either, but at least there was tension there between the two - they kinda sucked anything interesting out of him after that Not that he was interesting at all to begin with.

I actually kind of like Seiya x Usagi - sure, they're both kind of immature, but they're both supposed to be 16 years old - immature 16 year olds are kind of common. And Seiya isn't dead dull like Mamoru is.

Hina the Prince wrote:

In SKU, I hate Utena being shipped to anyone who isn't Anthy.

Seconded, Utena X Anthy is the only ship I sail!

I don't like Utena paired with Touga, or Juri, or Akio (ff.net) or Miki, or Chuchu, or Nanami (doujinshi) or even when she's with Anthy, but cheats on her with Nanami (Alan Harnum). Now, Anthy can be paired with practically anyone, and it can be realistic and not get on my nerves, but I do like the stories best when Utena arrives at the end!

    ____I don't recognize the other pairings of other couples everyone dislikes____

So back to why Harry/Draco is a no-no! It's because, even if Harry said, "I am becoming obsessed with Draco." Or something...I know from personal experience that you can hate someone so much, it takes over as the most powerful emotion, even replacing that of love, and that you CAN really be that obsessed and not want to screw the person in question. In my humble opinion, Harry simply HATES Draco in this manner. And Draco, well, he's just a stupid bully. Let me tell you what, I got picked on as a child, and I would never (given the opportunity) sleep with any of my bullies. I don't think Harry would either. And as for the bully aspect, I don't think there would ever be anything romantic ever conceivable, probably rape, and in that case, we would need some sign that Draco was slightly attracted to boys (there is NONE) and these books are written for an audience of children (ok some olders read to, but began as a child story) so Harry/Draco is definitely non-canon...only in my very humble opinion!

I wanted H/H, so shoot me! 

I think a good story can make almost any relationship work, if the author is willing to put in the work (sometimes quite a lot) to make it plausible.  It is very rarely the case they are, alas.

That being said, I've never seen any story or projected story where a Shiori/Juri coupling made a lick of sense, and therefore it almost automatically gets a negative reaction from me - it smacks of what the fan wants or just considers some kind of default, shoehorned in without any thought.

...that's for the TV series versions, of course. Movie Shiori can molest Juri all she wants.

I'm also pretty automatically suspicious of any story that's Ranma/Anybody-but-Akane (Ranma 1/2), even though I've done some of those myself, if only because that's such a reliable codeword for "Akane-bashing" in fanfiction these days. Also, once again, virtually nobody does the work to make it plausible (alternate history fics excepted, obviously).

Canonically, I hate Ryouga/Akari (also Ranma 1/2), because Akari is shallow and boring.

I don't care how well it's written, Utena/Nanami is one of the biggest no's in The Book of No's. Just... ewwww.

I tried to read Jaquemart, but the I couldn't stand the script-style writing for too long. -shrug- Archimage will forever remain my #1 fanfic for any genre ever not only because the characterization and plot, but also the gorgeous writing and symbolism.

And Anthy holding back her feelings for Utena so they can live normally? In character? That seems highly unlikely to me. Post-series Anthy, IMO, will bear some resemblance her movie counterpart - she will be more open about her sexuality and, well, everything. She doesn't have Onii-sama to hold her back now and I don't think Utena would reject her if Anthy put the moves on her because they've been pretty gay since the beginning of the series. Utena is just a wee bit in denial, but her post-series self probably won't be as naive and innocent.

Last edited by Hina the Prince (03-08-2007 01:20:28 PM)

Hina the Prince wrote:

I don't care how well it's written, Utena/Nanami is one of the biggest no's in The Book of No's. Just... ewwww.

Haha! Fair enough. When I saw it in doujinshi, I gagged. I did not LIKE Utena cheating on Anthy, in the story either, HOWEVER it's one of the best Nanami POV stories ever (think Harnum was big on Nanami)...BECAUSE it gives you one of the best window peeks into Utena & Anthy's relationship from an outside POV.

(SPOILERS FOR ALAN HARNUM'S FANFICTION ABOUND)

I'll summarize the story, since it sounds like you won't be reading it, and that would make you actually miss out on one of the best U/A moments in the history of fanfiction: Nanami goes meets with Miki, gets a gift from Mitsuru, goes out bowling with Juri, Shiori, & Wakaba, and even though everyone else seems kinda changed/happy/or unaffected she (Nanami) still feels like something is WRONG and knows that Utena is the source. So... she (N) confronts Akio!!! And gets Utena's address...

When she rings the doorbell, Anthy answers, and what follows is the very best description of the aftermath of UxA I have ever read in my life, I shall quote since I could never paraphrase this moment:

BEGIN QUOTE:

"Nanami-san," she said, with the same polite, submissive
tone with which she'd said everything at Ohtori, "how nice to
see you again."  And she smiled.  It was the same smile she'd
had while wielding the long toothed length of the ice saw, and,
as before, it made Nanami's skin crawl. 

     "Don't play games with me," Nanami snapped.  Past Anthy, she
could see that the apartment was small, but far less shabby than
the rest of the building; it reminded her of the dorm room the
two had shared at the East Hall, with a place for everything and
everything in its place.  She wondered where the animals were
hiding, and how many.  She glared at a point about six inches to
the left of Anthy's head.  "Where is she?"
     
     Anthy's smile changed subtly but profoundly at the sound of
Utena's voice; it lost all malice, all otherness, and became warm
and human.  It was as though Nanami no longer existed in her
sight.  "Come and see, Utena."  She stepped back and pulled the
door wider.  "Please come in, Nanami-san," she said in an
undertone.                                                                    END QUOTE

It is an AMAZING story, and also reveals the most wickedly delicious detail I've ever read about the after math of what would happen to Anthy & Akio's relationship. Get this: They write each other letters! He writes her, that he misses her and she should return, and she writes him that she hates him and she will not return, but back and forth they go. It was amazingly creepy!

Hina the Prince wrote:

I tried to read Jaquemart, but the I couldn't stand the script-style writing for too long. -shrug- Archimage will forever remain my #1 fanfic for any genre ever not only because the characterization and plot, but also the gorgeous writing and symbolism.

And Anthy holding back her feelings for Utena so they can live normally? In character? That seems highly unlikely to me. Post-series Anthy, IMO, will bear some resemblance her movie counterpart - she will be more open about her sexuality and, well, everything. She doesn't have Onii-sama to hold her back now and I don't think Utena would reject her if Anthy put the moves on her because they've been pretty gay since the beginning of the series. Utena is just a wee bit in denial, but her post-series self probably won't be as naive and innocent.

Blade wrote:

umm...

Did you actually just say that Akio's influence is holding back Anthy from being open about her sexuality?

Hey man, there are much kinder, less prickly ways to ask someone to explain what they mean!

And Hina, I know what you're saying there, that Anthy would seem more open (you would think) after leaving Ohtori & Akio behind, because as we UxA shippers agree, Anthy was restricted sexually by Akio, because A: he forced her to have sex with him, and B: Pimped her out to whichever duelist won. Note, this may not be how EVERYONE views Anthy's time at Ohtori, but we UxA fans tend to take this viewpoint. Anthy, having her druthers, would choose who she slept with freely, would not choose the duelist, would not choose Akio, she would choose Utena, to boot!

However, in this particular story, Hina, Jaquemart, it is reminiscent of Archimage in that Anthy does admit she loves Utena, and near the end, is willing to sacrifice anyone else's LIFE to free her from the illusion where she's trapped. The reason the relationship was not Full Blown Love, right after Ohtori escape was because they were still "trapped" because Akio was still alive...so Anthy still was living in chains. That was just part of the story. Kind of like in Archimage, the way they continue running, because Akio is after them. He is there, again, as a block to the perfect love. Unfortunately, in Jaquemart, this will never be solved. But in Archimage, hopefully it will.

I don't think Akio forced Anthy to have sex with him per se... perhaps it's more accurate to say that he forced her to want to have sex with him... because I don't think he would outright rape someone, it's just too much of a hassle for him to deal with the results of that. If I can articulate this better, I'll definitely post a follow-up but I can't quite describe what I'm thinking.

Hina the Prince wrote:

That excerpt was sweet, Frosty, but Akio mailing Anthy non-stop sating "omg plz come back" and Anthy replying "No I hate you" sounded kind of silly to me. XD

I have to admit it made me smile for that reason.

I know it seems very prevalent in all fanfiction today, that Akio is still up to his old tricks, and that kinda renders Utena's "revolution" pointless, but if the concept of Akio "going at it again" is overused, Alan Harnum was one of the very first to begin the trend. Also...

(spoiler to semi-ending of Jaquemart)

It seems that near the end, there was some sort of plan, by Utena to "save" Akio. I will never know, because I never spoke with Alan Harnum myself, back in the day when I lurked all over alt.fan.utena.  But it ends where Utena is in the Ohtori castle, or some similar equivalent magical replica, and she finds Kanae is pregnant with some sort of demon-esque child. (might have been plotting to reincarnate Akio if he were to be killed or something) And I forget if the baby is helpful to Utena, or not...but I remember it speaks to her, from within Kanae's womb and either points her in the right direction, or gives her cryptic advice. ANYWAY, it seemed like the ending of Jaquemart was leading to the final redemption of Akio. And who better to save the fallen prince, than the real one - Utena. But Anthy, was scared to death over this occurrence, and in the end, she takes along the straggling duelist and marches through the castle of illusions to "save" Utena before she gets herself killed "saving" Akio. It really would have been interesting to see that story end, but ah well...

I sit on the middle of the fence, with Akio raping Anthy. I know in the one scene, she looks upset when he pulls her to him - and you assume that it was a sexual advance, and so I would assume that it was rape. But then, Anthy, being a very three dimensional character, also was very possessive, as you pointed out Maarika. Scenes come to mind near the end, when Utena/Anthy/Akio are all living together in his tower, you see Anthy show some passive-aggressiveness...and it isn't always clear that it's because she's trying to "keep Utena away from Akio" but sometimes, that she actually WANTS Akio to herself. Now, as a UxA fan, I would say that the only reason she behaved that way was because it was another self-sacrificial move to protect Utena by keeping Akio interested in herself (Anthy).

Yeah, we are off topic! Basically all this to say, I don't like anyone paired with Utena, save for Anthy.

edit: I swapped the "I don't like anyone paired with Anthy, save for Utena..." because I do not mind Anthy being paired off with others, it's only Utena paired with others that irks me in fanfiction.

Last edited by Frosty (03-09-2007 12:34:17 AM)

Hina the Prince wrote:

Would you mind refreshing my memory about those scenes? I think I have a selective memory.

Well, besides Anthy always watching them with her creepy shiny glasses, there's one scene that comes to mind. When they are taking a picture together, I Utena is standing between Akio and Anthy. Anthy goes up to the camera to get Chuchu and when she comes back she sort of shoves herself between Utena and Akio. That could be interpreted as jealousy on her part, not wanting Utena getting close to 'her' Akio.

I somehow don't see Anthy as coming to hate Akio. Not sure why, she seems to pity him, be amused by him, but I don't think she'd hate him.

Everything in Utena has multiple interpretations. Its best not to dwell on all the possibilities if we are to remain sane.

Lightice wrote:

A forceful act, but not a full-blown rape. Anthy lacked reaction, she didn't have the negative reaction. That is, she wasn't responsive or interested, but she didn't outright reject him, either. That described quite a bit about their relationship, actually.

She didn't reject him but she didn't accept him, either. If this kind of thing [God forbid] would happen to you, would you go "huh, I didn't push him away screaming, so that didn't count as rape"? Somehow, I doubt that.

I do agree that Anthy has more control over Akio than he has on her - the end of the series made it obvious, but that doesn't mean he has no control on her, nor does it mean he can't hurt her. Aaaand let's move this to the Akio/Anthy thread because this topic hijacking has been going on for too long.

I hate hyuugacest.