If you think that Miki’s voice is bad, listen to Mitsuru. It’s disturbing to hear a little boy who sounds like a middle-aged made complain about how much he wants to be an adult.

My first time through the series, I watched up to episode 6 in English. I hadn't even seen it in Japanese, but the moment Nanami said, "Well, aren't we Miss Self Sufficient USA," I realized that this must be a very terrible dub.

Hey, I thought this thread was about Shiori, you guys

I guess I understand Shiori a little better from reading this thread. Something we all seem to have assumed but skimmed over is the similarity between Anthy and Utena's relationship, and Shiori and Juri's relationship. I guess, in a way, Juri and Shiori are an image of a relationship that Utena and Anthy could have had if things had been a little bit off. What with the argument over what Shiori really meant when she freaked out in the elevator, I think I'll just stick to my opinion of it-- that Shiori was so low in self esteem that she was disgusted by the idea of Juri wanting/loving her. But doesn't that parallel Anthy when she says she's a dirty woman and Utena should leave her? There's a lot of similarity between the relationships if you look at Juri as a broken, dysfunctional Prince, and Shiori as a Princess too caught up in her own lack of self-worth to realize what she could have. Juri faces some of the same crises that Utena does-- she protects Shiori in spite of Shiori's apparent willingness to let herself wallow in self-destructive behavior, just as Utena tries to protect Anthy from the consequences of her behavior. It's kind of eerie.

This has also answered a question for me-- I never really understood what was so different between Anthy and Utena's relationship, and Juri and Shiori's, that Utena calls her own pure and implies that Juri's isn't. I suppose that Juri and Shiori's relationship isn't pure because it seems like no matter what they felt for each other, they also demanded something in return, while Utena and Anthy (to a certain degree) were struggling against that very thing.

It's so obvious, why did I not think of it before? From Shiori's point of view Juri is innocently cruel. Over and over cool guys would probably approach Shiori to ask her to introduce them to Juri. Neither they nor Juri would know what that felt like for her.

brian wrote:

It's so obvious, why did I not think of it before? From Shiori's point of view Juri is innocently cruel. Over and over cool guys would probably approach Shiori to ask her to introduce them to Juri. Neither they nor Juri would know what that felt like for her.

That's right. If I was using my other computer, I would be able to find my spin off of that term to fit Shiori's point of view.

Juri's perfection is cruel to Shiori, and she's completely unaware of it. It's easy to assume that Juri was something like Utena in middle school, in the sense that she always stuck out and was admired by many people. Rather than basking in that light as many do, she was left in the shadows. She never realized that excelling at fencing, modeling, and being one of Ohtori's best students was cruel to Shiori. In fact, she may have tried harder to make these features noticeable to impress her, only to make things worse for her friend.

Though we all know that Juri hides her true feelings and is always wearing that stoic mask, it could be that Shiori hides her feelings as well. She could never come right out and tell Juri that the way she acts bothers her without sounding even more pathetic. Juri hides her weakness, and Shiori hides her true feelings to prevent herself from seeming weak. Though she looks sad one minute, she has a smile on her face the moment Juri looks in her direction.

I think that their friendship began when the two of them were very young, around the time when they were in first grade or even kindergarten. At that age, Juri had not yet developed the qualities that make her who she is, and children that young are not given any high expectations to live up to. During that time, the two of them were equals, making friendship between them normal and easy to achieve.

It was over time that these differences became apparent. Though Juri turned out to be beautiful and talented, Shiori turned out like every other girl.