I wouldn't call it unhealthy in that it's irrevocably flawed, but I'd venture to say that at the point Anthy's at in the series, and probably some time after, she's not going to be a healthy partner for anybody. Utena's going to be pretty scarred too. They both seemed to withstand Akio pretty well given the damage he's probably used to causing, but there's still going to be that specter of jealousy and betrayal that they both have felt toward the other, and I don't get the impression either of them, Anthy especially, is the communicative type such that that laundry will get aired without a lot of mess first. Unhealthy? No, but that's a relationship, friends or otherwise, that needs a lot of work.

I've always seen their relationship as a lack of one.* There was just so many things left unsaid and hidden by Anthy, when on the other side you have Utena who is trying to turn her into a 'normal girl' for the sake of her own satisfaction. The amount of time they spent together (which started off as a formality of being the Rose Bride and the duelist winner) could might as well be the only reason they've developed somewhat of a liking towards each other, because everything else between them was a combination of lies and untold truths.

* Which disappointed me, because I originally started watching SKU for the yuri.

I think Iris has it spot on. I don't think there ARE any healthy relationships in Utena. If Utena and Anthy have a healthy relationship, it's only in the relative sense. However, I think if we go for platonic relationships, I might nominate Utena and Miki, who pretty much stay casual friends through  most of the series.

Whenever I get all fangirly for Miki I point out that he's the only student council member who would lose to Utena and basically go, "Meh. See you tomorrow at lunch."

Iris wrote:

Baka Kakumei Reanna wrote:

Utena and Miki

You have a good point there, their relationship is really rather healthy and normal.  I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that in the manga he was in love with Utena instead of Anthy.

I'd be willing to bet that was the inspiration for it, since the manga and anime are so different. I think it also has a lot to do with the nature of Miki's personality.

Amen to Anthiena.  They both get into the relationship for all the wrong reasons, as Iris explains.  Then Touga's first duel happens, and everything changes.  Utena is torn to shreds by the loss, and thanks largely to Wakaba, she realizes that it's the end of her friendship with Anthy that does this to her.  It makes her reevaluate her view of Anthy -- she's a friend, not a charity case; worth love, not pity.  From then on, while Utena's tendency to second-guess Anthy's antisocial behavior doesn't go away entirely, she presents her concern with more respect than she did during the Student Council Saga.

For Anthy's part, this is the same time when she begins to see Utena as more than one more plaything for Akio.  We have her imagining Utena smiling at her across the table when Touga walks off bound for sexploits, and of course in the climactic duel of episode 12 we have Anthy withdrawing the power she'd infused the Sword of Dios with.  Anthy still doesn't trust Utena (trust doesn't tend to work out well for Anthy), and her loyalty to her brother is (for now) undiminished, but Utena means something to her then.

So we have two characters who love each other and acknowledge their love for each other, at least to themselves.  That is the groundwork of a healthy relationship.  The edifice itself needs some work, but at least it's not built on deceit (like RukaxShiori), denial (like NemuroxTokiko), or despair (like AkioxAnthy).

Like you said, Satyre, I think the healthy groundwork is there for Utena/Anthy (while in the majority of the series relationships, is most definitely is not). There are issues certainly, but I think this is inevitable in any friendship, real or fictional.

I believe Anthy does trust Utena more than anyone else she interacts with by the last arc of the series. She may be hiding more from Akio than she is from Utena at that point, in a sense. She still can't trust her completely (due to fear and a sense of hopelessness as to her fate), but I think their relationship shows gradual growth of understanding over the course of the show. Given Anthy's past and degree of self-loathing, it's true that it's impossible for her to completely confide in Utena during what we see. I don't think of this as a result of a relationship problem with Utena however, I think of this as a personal Anthy problem, and she makes strides toward healing herself in the end.

I guess it bothers me that people dismiss Utena and Anthy's interactions as flawed, because I feel like that has an undertone of saying individuals who are broken and have been victimized in the past can never have healthy relationships. I believe it takes effort to be able to trust again and interact normally, but I don't believe that it's impossible.

Iris wrote:

I do see their relationship as unhealthy, but probably the healthiest one in SKU.
That is, until the very end, when it becomes healthy.

This. I totally agree with Iris here.
First of all, they don't communicate freely what they need so they are both frustrated. I cannot imagine a healthy relationship that lacks communication. When I think about a healthy relationship, I don't think about the co-dependence. It's not our job to save someone in a relationship, so this relationship was based on wrong assumption to begin with. The relationship became healthy when Utena and Anthy reinvented it: Anthy left Ohtori by herself, actually. I think it's important that they are both riding horses in the opening - they are finally equal.

I'd like to add that Anthy was a witch. To me her relationship with Utena was the actual bewitching. So... the relationship didn't bring the best out of her, actually. I think its bitter end made her realize there's the other way - to save herself. In episode 25 Anthy remembers the moment when she said to Dios: "We'll live to help each other", so they aren't autonomous, they were codependent.

Last edited by dlaire (06-16-2014 03:55:55 PM)

I've come to realise it's a very unhealthy relationship in every sense of the word.

Which doesn't make it any less enthralling!

A healthy relationship would be open and honest, with no weird power dynamics, and mutual interest. Utena has a saviour complex and Anthy is the eternal victim, and their energy calls to each other strongly.

They did both grow in the course of the series, but it's still far from a healthy relationship. Perhaps they could build one, say oh, with some hard work and personal growth over a few years (when/if Anthy finds Utena again!).