Satyreyes, I'm with you on Juri being the best expert when it comes to "relationship" (aka a conflict-free, pain-free way to interact romantically with others) advice.  I remember her advising both Miki and Nanami about how much easier things will be for them should they change who they love/fixate on (it's a BR Arc Ep, I think); too bad she is too fixated herself to truly live her own words of wisdom.

But if you ask me, I think only Ruka knows what "love" really is: limitless self-sacrifice on the lover's part for the benefit of the one beloved.  Ruka is willing to degenerate himself into the "bad guy" in Juri's eyes - going so far as to seduce and hurt a love-rival he found repulsive - just to set her free.  While not a "good person" (he'd ruthlessly hurt even non-relevant individuals for the sake of his beloved), I do find him a passionate, genuine "lover".  Anthy is a bit like that, but I rank her "love" of Dios/Akio inferior to Ruka, in that she seems ultimately aiming to "tie" her Prince down by encouraging him to "fall low" along with herself; Ruka, on the other hand, strives to set Juri free at the cost of losing her himself.

Those who do take relationship advice from Ruka are unlikely to be looking at happy relationships; most people, like Shiori-bound Juri, don't really want what they need.  I do, however, think the Ruka-route can allow for people to "give love" in the true sense of the word.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

Satyreyes, I'm with you on Juri being the best expert when it comes to "relationship" (aka a conflict-free, pain-free way to interact romantically with others) advice.  I remember her advising both Miki and Nanami about how much easier things will be for them should they change who they love/fixate on.

Good memory!!  Yes -- in fact, she goes even further than that and says it would be easier for all three of them if they could change who they loved.  She's aware of her own shortcomings.  Good for her.

gorgeousshutin wrote:

But if you ask me, I think only Ruka knows what "love" really is: limitless self-sacrifice on the lover's part for the benefit of the one beloved.  Ruka is willing to degenerate himself into the "bad guy" in Juri's eyes - going so far as to seduce and hurt a love-rival he found repulsive - just to set her free.  While not a "good person" (he'd ruthlessly hurt even non-relevant individuals for the sake of his beloved), I do find him a passionate, genuine "lover".

That's an interesting take on his character!  Ruka is one of the few people in SKU who at least tries to back up his romantic feelings with selfless action: in his mind, what he does is an expression of love.  But things get subjective here, I guess, because I don't agree with you that love -- for the purposes of a relationship, anyway -- involves limitless self-sacrifice, and I definitely don't think that what Ruka does is an acceptable way to express love for someone.  It is presumptuous, to say the least, for him to think that he can save another person from herself, to say nothing of what he does to poor Shiori.  Now, maybe Ruka knows that what he's doing is wrong, and if you asked him for relationship advice he would tell you not to follow his example.  You could probably argue that either way from the text.  But I think it would be dangerous to take relationship advice from him.  Still an interesting take, though!

Last edited by satyreyes (07-15-2013 02:10:06 PM)

dlaire wrote:

But still, no one communicates its feelings - only poor Wakaba expressed her love in her letter to Saionji, but being interested in someone she doesn't really know... I dunno, there are no good role models in SKU when it comes to couples and stuff like that.

Yeah   Wakaba crossed my mind, but she'd be a lousy relationship advisor.  I mean, her advice would come from a place of enthusiasm and hope, which is more than I could say for people like Touga or Anthy, but she's neither experienced nor all that smart about people.  It would be like getting advice from an American junior high student who is an expert on relationships because she reads Cosmo every month.  Maybe in ten years.

Actually - we can learn more from their failures than from their advices.
As you said, Wakaba treats a love as the confirmation of her value, she wants to feel special by feeling love of someone special. I think all Touga fans suffer from that. I also wonder whether the crush on a popular stranger is a sign of being afraid of love - when you love an idol, you experience beta love inside your head.
Juri is a terrible coward. She also confuses being weak with being a human being and her case shows us that being in love means being vulnerable.

Also, even couples talk in riddles, there are no real intimacy between them: they are incapable of expressing their needs, they are petrified of the idea of taking emotional risk.

The more I think about it, I come to the conclusion that C-Ko had the best relationship advices.

I missed you, Davine. 

crystalwren wrote:

I'd like to strike Juri off the list; she's incapable of connecting emotionally to anyone in a healthy way, and she has a distinct lack of empathy for others.

Wow, that's harsh!    Juri is self-absorbed (as is the rest of the cast; they are teenagers) and her relationships are troubled (as are everyone else's; they are teenagers).  But you're going beyond that and describing her almost as a psychopath!  There are people in the show who exhibit an almost complete lack of empathy, but I wouldn't have said Juri was one of them.  Juri has enough empathy to sustain a genuine mentorship and friendship with Miki, with scenes where she visibly attends to what he's thinking and feeling ("your sword has the force of your sincerity").  She has enough empathy, as shutin pointed out earlier, to be able to connect her own relationship troubles to those of Miki and Nanami.  She has enough empathy on the eve of the final duel to acknowledge out loud that Utena loves Anthy, even though Utena herself isn't quite sure about that at the moment, and to sympathetically compare Utena's feelings about Anthy to her own for Shiori.  Honestly, for someone so antisocial and proud, Juri seems to be able to connect to others pretty well -- as long as those "others" aren't Shiori or Ruka.

I hear where you're coming from.  At her worst, Juri is a terror.  You're quite right that she's impatient and doesn't suffer fools gladly.  She's also temperamental; how she treats you definitely does depend on whether she's having a good day or a bad day.  But the thing is, I don't see how those qualities affect her ability to give relationship advice.  I'm assuming that whoever is giving the advice is actually trying to give good advice, and is not brushing you off or trying to mislead you.  And if Juri has actually settled down to try and advise you, I think she's going to do a good job.  Or at least, a better job than the rest of the cast, which is admittedly a low bar. 

When it comes to Juri, let me remember you two scenes: one with Shiori and one with some girl from fencing club. She showed her empathy when Shiori begged Ruka to be with her in front of the school crowd. She tried to comfort her face to face so she didn't do that to show how good she is.  She also visits a wounded girl at the Ohtori nursing room so she feels responsible for people around her.
Still, I agree she has huge problems while interacting with others, especially when they want to talk about HER emotions. Everything is fine when you chat about your own problems - it might give her the feeling of being strong, mature and uh oh smart. So yes, she would enjoy giving advices, especially pessimistic ones such as: Don't believe in miracles.

Davine Lu Linvega wrote:

Pure Awesome

Good to see you again! And I'm adopting your story into my personal canon. Anthy has a lonely hearts column under an assumed name in the school newspaper just for this purpose.