Interesting, poet!  I love the parallel between Akio's and Anthy's relationship with Iago's and Emilia's; the only glaring asymmetry is that Anthy is much more aware of what she's doing than Emilia is.  Anthy knew exactly who she was betraying, where Emilia found out the hard way. 

Also food for thought: Harold Bloom, eminent literary critic and great scholar of Shakespeare, has explicitly compared Iago to Milton's Satan.  Both are trusted henchmen to figures of power who pass them over for practical reasons.  Both rebel violently against the beloved authority.  Akio's connection to Lucifer, of course, is canon.  It's tempting to see a similar rebellion in Akio's deceitful and antisocial Iago impression: a rebellion against Dios, or the expectation that he should be Dios.

Malacoda wrote:

O poet of fire, can I have you? Because that was amazing. Though if I could add a little bit...if Akio's Iago, then Dios is Othello. They both were portrayed as great, noble people who "loved not wisely, but too well" (Act 5, scene 2, line 340). Your earlier analysis still upholds, of course because Akio is a corrupted version of Dios.

But that leaves me wondering, does that make Touga Cassio

Dios is very similar to Othello, although the tragic flaws are different.  Although Dios's trusting nature somewhat mirrors Othello.  Touga is (a MUCH smarter version of) Roderigo to me.  He thinks he can attain Desdemona/Utena, but in reality he's just a pawn.

Cool, poetoffire! Given the game of Othello that they play, it's definitely an interesting angle on the episode.

poetoffire wrote:

Such as, right after episode 25, the Saionji Akio car episode:

Shadow Girl:  That challenger just barely lost.
Shadow Girl:  Well, the champion's fighting style was truly magnificent.
Shadow Girl:  Now the King of Impersonation has been on top for the last eight weeks!
Shadow Girl:  Just four more matches and it'll be time to fight the glorious Grand Champion of the Kings of Impersonation!
Utena:  That champion is so amazing.
Utena:  I wonder if he'll be able to challenge the Grand Champion of the Kings of Impersonation?
Utena:  I hope he makes it.

This is, pretty obviously it seems, Saionji and Touga.  The King of Impersonation is Touga, and the title fits him all too well.

Hmm, I don't know about that. If we're taking this as a commentary on Saionji's duel (which we certainly should!), the challenger is indeed Saionji. However, the person he challenged, the one who's been on top for the last eight weeks (or eight duels, natch), is Utena, not Touga. She is the King of Impersonation. Just four more matches... Miki, Ruka, Juri, and Nanami... and it'll be time to fight the glorious Grand Champion of the Kings of Impersonation: Touga. Utena's comments are ironic because she's cheering herself on.

And the challenger who keeps trying to best the King but always is just barely behind is Saionji.

I don't think that there's any implication that the same challenger has been going against the King of Impersonation repeatedly, just that the King is on a long winning streak.

Dallbun wrote:

If we're taking this as a commentary on Saionji's duel (which we certainly should!), the challenger is indeed Saionji. However, the person he challenged, the one who's been on top for the last eight weeks (or eight duels, natch), is Utena, not Touga. She is the King of Impersonation. Just four more matches... Miki, Ruka, Juri, and Nanami... and it'll be time to fight the glorious Grand Champion of the Kings of Impersonation: Touga. Utena's comments are ironic because she's cheering herself on.

Yep, I agree.  After writing this, I read Celeste's analysis essay, which detailed that, and it makes a lot more sense.  I was just pointing out things I noticed when reviewing the episode, and I didn't know someone had already explained that in greater detail.

Yasha wrote:

poetoffire, that should be an essay in the analysis section. Wonderful work.

Really?  I'd love that!

Wow, I have NEVER realized that before. I love how it's essentially the same color scheme, but inverted. Since color means so much in the SKUverse, there's little doubt in my mind it bears some sort of significance, and you did a fine job interpreting it. Good food for thought!

Interesting stuff! I never know how much to read into color symbolism in the show; it's obviously meant to be read into to a degree, but at the same time I hear there's like...a point where you overanalyze things. Weird. I LOVE the bit about the Magician's shoes--Akio's named as the Magician in the fan tarot deck and I've never doubted its accuracy there.

I would offer that Anthy's Rose Bride dress is really what seems to complement and reflect Akio's outfit as far as color scheme--Utena's dueling uniform I want to say is meant more to speak to Anthy's dress than Akio's clothes, though the inversion of the colors is an awesome thing to notice! (Mikage and Miki do something similar IIRC.) I remember inversion being a concept that shows up in a lot of Seazer's work, and the series is rife with examples of compared and contrasted pairs. (Miki and Kozue, Utena and Mikage) Anthy and Akio are paired symbolically, but so are Akio and Utena, so it seems fitting Akio's wardrobe reminds us a little of both.

When you have a color like red, passion but not necessarily healthy passion, I can't help but imagine Touga in the background flipping all these imposters off--that's HIS color, get red pubes or GTFO! When you talk especially about waking up passions, you do have to give Touga his cred there--it's Touga, not Akio, that gets Utena's little red shorts atingle for the first time. Akio makes a careful point of not doing that until much later.

As I recall, in the original character designs, Utena's uniform is...pink, isn't it?

teyhy wrote:

satyreyes wrote: but I think it's more likely they thought about what colors and wardrobe features naturally resonate with each character (and look cool, and make them stand out) and used those.

I agree with this but it is nice to over-analyzed every once in a while.
Actually, this reminds me of the manga; there is a page in which an assistant accidentally spills ink, it falls on Utena's jacket. They later explain that Utena's jacked is black because of that.

b]satyreyes wrote:[/b]...And noticed that if you include the shoes, the run-of-the-mill girls' uniform has all the same colors you noted in Utena's and Akio's.

Yes, but the fact that the colors Akio and Utena wear are inverted and that they have so little green in their outfit is what really called my attention.

Really?   I always thought it was for stylistic purposes (or Ikuni expressing some dislike for Chiho's style), because in the manga there is this other page where Saito and Ikuhara are talking about coloring changes, and I remember it said something like:

Ikuhara:  Which do you like better, pink or black?
Saito:  Mm... Pink.
Ikuhara:  It'll be black, then.

Then again, I could be wrong.  The manga I read was a shitty library copy that was colored in, missing pages, and didn't have the final volume.  >.>

I wrote:They later explain that Utena's jacked is black because of that.

I don't remember which volume it is; but it is in a little corner, just a few draws, that end with "and that's why Utena's jacket is now black". I believe it is the volume in which she decides to challenge Touga again.

winksniperThen again, I could be wrong.  The manga I read was a shitty library copy that was colored in, missing pages, and didn't have the final volume.  >.>

I couldn't find the final volume anywhere either, back then every site said it was out of print. I read it online on this site: http://www.esthetique-realm.net/forums/index.php when I got tired of looking for it.

Well I just finished re-watching the last three episodes of Utena (Thank you torrents for the whole seriessss!!!) and I have read this most of this post and now I really want to add to it...D: But it's been inactive for nearly a year, would anyone still be interested?

Also. Akio makes me was to get laid and safeguard my virginity with a sword and a Spartan shield at the exact same time. Gaaggh.

Rebel Prince wrote:

h) Never seen a blue (Ruka/Miki) rose.

The Blue Rose is somewhat of a floral myth. It is said to be extremely difficult to cultivate, and can only be produced through genetic modification. Before the practice of floral genetic engineering, blue roses were often dyed from white roses. They do not exist naturally. As such the term "Blue Rose" can often mean something unattainable or exceptional in some way. (Can we say "eternity"? ) A blue rose also symbolizes prosperity.

In Miki it might symbolize his child-prodigy status and the fact that he is often viewed by his more distant peers as being exceptional in many respects. It also symbolizes the "forbidden" attachment he feels for Kozue.

Ruka's rose may carry more romance-oriented connotations. (I might sound a little fuzzy, I haven't really watched Ruka's episodes in a while. Will expand later.) As far as a romantic association, the blue rose symbolizes an unattainable love (perhaps Juri). Furthermore, roses in general are supposed to have a meaning of fulfilled wishes, as expressed in traditional turn-of-the-century and Victorian-era flower meanings.


EDIT: I was kind of just browsing around this thread, since it was necroed. I hope this isn't redundant.

Last edited by Azure (01-05-2011 05:32:28 PM)

Maybe who Miki is isn't so rare and unobtainable to the point of being mythological, but what he seeks or desires is.  Miki wants his childhood innocence back (and the only mythological creature I can think of happens to be a unicorn, which has a lot to do with innocence -neato!) 

Whether or not Ruka was even truly at Ohtori, or if anyone remembers him, is left ambiguous.  Miki's childhood is left nothing more than a memory -maybe even less so, as Kozue has a different memory of their childhood, making his look like nothing more than a myth or fairy tale-, so what he wants is represented by a blue rose, and potentially so is Ruka's life.  Ruka wears a blue rose because he himself may not be real in the present, harshest sense of the word.  Additionally, prince parallels are set up with Ruka, and just as in the movie all true princes are dead, because human beings cannot physically live up to the myth of being so successfully heroic without some realistic sacrifice.

brb, sad forever.

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (01-05-2011 11:31:57 PM)

BLASPHEMY.  HAIR COLOR IS SRS BZNZ IN SKU.   YOU GO SIT IN THE CORNER AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID. 


Well have someone to navigate your descending, guilt-ridden trip into existential madness ready in a few minutes.

Last edited by OnlyInThisLight (01-06-2011 08:17:30 PM)

Razara wrote:

No pictures this time. I got lazy. But I’ll be analyzing the super-fun symbolism in episode 27, Nanami’s Egg. :3


At the start of the episode, Nanami wakes up and realizes that she’s laid an egg. Though you probably wouldn’t expect it, this isn’t a completely random moment that happened just for the hell of it. All girls lay eggs. Nanami just got her first period. It’s very apparent that Nanami’s parents never told her about any of this, resulting in her panic and confusion through all of this. (My grandmother went through the same thing.)

As Mitsuru is reading Nanami’s schedule, he mentions that she will be having a, “girls-only health and hygiene class.” All the while, Nanami is still panicking because she laid an egg. She starts to imagine how the other girls might react, calling her a space alien. Little does Nanami know that laying an egg does not make her some sort of alien, though she continues to imagine that Mitsuru will condemn her for it as well. She tells Utena that, a “boy-girl” like her could never understand.

Later, after she finds out from Miki that girls can lay eggs, she wonders if she was the only one who didn’t know this, and that perhaps she was really late compared to most girls. She imagines Keiko, Aiko, and Yuuko making fun of her and calling her a baby, which is another thing that girls tend to worry about during this time.

Nanami is running along when she bumps into Juri. “Nanami! Be careful! You almost scratched my ball!” Nanami mistakes Juri’s ball for an egg. (Incase you haven’t already figured this out, “ball” in Japanese is “tama,” and “egg,” is “tamago,” so they both sound pretty similar.) When Nanami holds it, she comments on how big it is. “Well, I used to have smaller ones, but that’s the size I get now.” This refers to breast sizes. “I think it just feels good.” Even the first time I watched this, the first thing that popped into my mind was, “masturbation.” Nanami falls to the ground and thinks, “Juri really is mature!” And then, one of my favorite scenes in SKU, Juri bowls a strike at the bowling alley. She sparkles as a huge crowd of fans cheer for her. She certainly is very confident in her appearance.

Now Nanami is embracing the fact that one day she’ll become a mother. (You’ve gotta love that egg song.) The next day, Mitsuru confronts her.
Mitsuru: “Nanami-san, if you ever have a problem, please tell me. I’ll do anything for you!”
Nanami: “Oh? ANYthing? Oh, I see! So, if I ask you to run at 300 kilometers an hour, you’d do it?! If I told you to fly at match 5, you’d do it?! If I told you to dive ten thousand meters below the ocean, you’d do that too?!”
Mitsuru: “Well… That might be…” 
Nanami: “Impossible! Impossible! Absolutely impossible for you! So don’t make promises you can’t keep!”
PMS, much?

Mitsuru tells Utena and Anthy about Nanami’s strange and short-tempered behavior as of lately, and Anthy suggests that it is as though she has just laid an egg. “My pet hen Nanami got like that right after she laid an egg.” The way chickens lay eggs is actually a lot like their period. Someone even told me that once when I was younger. And if you’re looking for a non-symbolic reason for how on Earth Nanami could have possibly laid an egg, I’ll point you in Anthy’s direction.

Touga: “Nanami. You’re in a very good mood this morning.”
Nanami: “It’s because I’m working so hard! I’m working hard for our glorious future, Onii-sama!”
Touga: “For our future?”
Nanami: “Tell me, Onii-sama… which do you prefer? A boy or a girl?”
Touga: “That’s an obvious answer. Girls, of course.”
Nanami: “Oh, good! So do I.” (*Giggles*)
Touga: “Nanami, you… You like girls more than boys?”
Nanami: “Yes.”
Touga: “Listen, Nanami, God created men and women for a reason. That reason being because they join together in the best sort of way. No matter how good something may feel, going against God’s plan is…” (Says the man who is sleeping with the Chairman.)
Nanami: “Onii-sama, what in the world are you talking about?! You know you’re the only one I love!
Touga: “But you just said you preferred girls.”
Nanami: “That’s not what I meant!”
Basically, confusion about her sexuality. Her hands actually shake a bit as she says, “That’s not what I meant!”

Touga: “Then what?”
Nanami: “Look… What would you think of a girl who lays eggs?”
Touga: “Nanami… Why do you think we’ve been able to live so happily together? It’s because you’re a girl who doesn’t lay eggs. I pity the family of a girl who would betray them like that.”
They’re able to live happily together because Nanami isn’t the type to sleep around with boys, or Touga, for that matter.

Nanami’s three stalkers stir eggs in the background and Nanami thinks, “Juri and Keiko and the others lay eggs, so why am I the only one getting grief for it?! That’s right! What do THEY go when they lay eggs?! They wouldn’t!” She looks over in disgust in horror at the three guys stirring the eggs. The way they stir looks an awful lot like this emoticon. She’s just answered the question, “Where do babies come from?” for herself.

I don’t have much of an interpretation for the Shadow Girls in this episode.

Nanami decides to give up her egg, and abandons it in the woods. Later that night, she changes her mind, and goes back to find it again. She stumbles across Saionji, who she thinks has eaten her egg. She beats him up for it until she realizes that he didn’t really eat her egg, and takes it back from him. (Honestly, I’m not sure what to make of this.)

Later, Nanami finds her egg fully grown to an enormous size. “Forgive me! I promise I’ll never abandon you again! I won’t abandon you!” After seemingly abandoning her egg again, it hatches from its shell as a monster, and leaves her to cause destruction throughout the world. In the end, isn’t that every parent’s story? They raise their children with all the love in the world, but one day they leave forever to cause destruction to the world, just as almost every other human does. But parents have to let go of their children eventually when they’re old enough.

Utena asks Anthy where “he,” has been, and she tells her that he should be home soon. Utena answers the door, and finds that Chu-Chu has returned home. We can assume that Chu-Chu is the father. (Thank you, Anthy.)


Who says that symbolism can’t be fun?

Thanks!!! everything seems so much plain now!