In the Rose Garden / Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

Tarotgirl · Back to Top

Okay, this has been something that always kind of bothered me. I watched Buffy (Never did finish it) and I really hated how the show seemed to punish Buffy for having sex despite it being "feminist" The Nobility with Utena has heavily talked about on "The Prince That Runs Through The Night" where she lost her virginity.

I am also thinking that it was perhaps the the fact she had sex with Akio, someone who had a fiance. And if she had sex with anyone else it would have been "okay"

But the fact is that her Rose Crest Ring is somewhat implied to be an "Engagement Ring" and almost as thought she was "saving" herself for her Prince. And having sex (Outside Marriage) made her lose her less noble.

It bothers me because historically (And still today) a woman's honor was tied to her virginity, and it bothers me if Utena, which is suppose to be the world's most feminist anime, engages in one of the oldest misogynist practices in the world

But as I was writing this, I wonder if Akio manipulated Utena into just thinking that having sex made her more less noble, and as a result made her less heroic prince like and more like a "dirty" and "weak" woman. The thing about slut shaming is that it is a uniquely feminine practice, and by making her feel like a 'slut' it forced her more into the "princess" role.

And by adding the nobility aspect she somehow had to "redeem' for having sex meant she had to enter into a monogamous relationship with the man she lost it too. I feel that the fact that Akio tells Utena 'to become his princess" adds to that. An honorable proposal, if you will.

So forcing Utena into the misogynist dual aspect of the Madonna-Whore

Arale · Back to Top

It's basically she loses nobility in her own eyes. She couldn't live up to the unrealistic expectation she had set for herself when she decided to devote herself to one single person. In reality, there was no inherent nobility to lose.

Revolutionary · Back to Top

Tarotgirl wrote:
But as I was writing this, I wonder if Akio manipulated Utena into just thinking that having sex made her more less noble, and as a result made her less heroic prince like and more like a "dirty" and "weak" woman. The thing about slut shaming is that it is a uniquely feminine practice, and by making her feel like a 'slut' it forced her more into the "princess" role.

And by adding the nobility aspect she somehow had to "redeem' for having sex meant she had to enter into a monogamous relationship with the man she lost it too. I feel that the fact that Akio tells Utena 'to become his princess" adds to that. An honorable proposal, if you will.

So forcing Utena into the misogynist dual aspect of the Madonna-Whore

I think you've got it, though there are probably other things that made her feel less noble (like using Anthy).

Aelanie · Back to Top

I've always felt the opposite. The show does not depict the act and aftermath of Utena having sex with any degree of shame or sense of "loss of virtue", except as regards the fact that Akio is ostensibly already engaged. That being the case is her frequent refrain before the fact, and that is what he taunts her with afterward. Other than that though, the show makes no comment and passes no judgement on Utena's side of the sex.

That scene was intended to drive starkly home the degree to which Utena had fallen into Akio's power. The judgement is entirely on him, both as an adult taking advantage of a child, and as a possibly immortal/supernatural being drawing Utena ever further into his plans for her. In that scene, all her strength and nobility are drained away, as she babbles awkwardly about food.

As I say though, in the aftermath Utena does not appear to have feelings of self-recrimination for the sex itself, only in how it was a betrayal of both Anthy and (in her mind) Kanae. She deals with these issues, recognizing the truth that she was manipulated, and - as we see her in the finale - appears to bear no mental or emotional "scars" from the experience. Quite the contrary, it played an important role in tempering her into a stronger person, more aware of the evil she was facing and more determined to stop it.

One final thing you need to know is that this event was intended on some level to be Ikuhara's middle finger to virgin fetishism. This is the same man who told Evangelion's director, Anno Hideaki, that he wanted to see Rei married and pregnant, just to shatter the delusions of fanboys that she was a pure, virginal doll/waifu for their entertainment. It seems clear to me that he wanted to accomplish something similar here. Again, the show does not depict Utena as irrevocably tainted or lessened by the act of having sex, even in this very exploitative case that Akio contrived. She recovers her strength and her convictions fully, as we see them on display during the final battle.

Last edited by Aelanie (01-03-2017 02:43:07 PM)

Razara · Back to Top

The situation wasn't great to begin with, but I agree that Akio wanted to make Utena question her nobility by seducing her. The "You didn't reject me, even though I have a fiancee. That's a sin, isn't it?" is kind of a dick move.

#1 | Back to Top12-31-2016 11:04:47 AM

Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

#2 | Back to Top12-31-2016 01:27:22 PM

Re: Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

#3 | Back to Top12-31-2016 05:34:37 PM

Re: Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

Tarotgirl wrote:

#4 | Back to Top01-03-2017 02:38:51 PM

Re: Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

#5 | Back to Top01-05-2017 08:30:21 PM

Re: Is Utena having sex that ended her losing her nobility?

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