tohubohu wrote:

Then I started thinking about other game settings.  Like Werewolf (second edition).

The Characters (all homid):
Utena -- Child of Gaia ragabash cub
Juri -- Black Fury ahroun Rank 1
Touga -- Shadow Lord philodox Rank 2
Saionji -- Get of Fenris ahroun Rank 1
Miki -- Silver Fang galliard Rank 1
Nanami -- Shadow Lord ahroun cub
Anthy -- Uktena theurge (Rank unknown)
Wakaba -- Child of Gaia philodox cub
Kozue -- Silver Fang galliard cub
Shiori -- Get of Fenris philodox cub
Keiko -- Shadow Lord ragabash cub
Aiko -- Shadow Lord kin
Yuuko -- Shadow Lord kin
Mitsuru -- Shadow Lord galliard cub

Ruka -- Silver Fang ahroun Rank 2

Mikage -- Glass Walker philodox Rank 3
Mamiya -- Uktena theurge (Rank unknown)

Akio -- Stargazer theurge (Rank 4)

I am a HUGE Garou fan and I have to diagree with your tribe/auspice.rank assessments here.  that's not saying your version couldn't work, but I feel you aren't giving some of the cast enough credit and also I think a few are off.  I think:

Utena - Child of Gaia, Ragabash Cliath (rank 1) - pretty good asessment there, but I think having her a cub is underpowering her.  Cubs aren;t allowed out on their own and she most definitely is out and about as she pleases.

Seitokai:

Juri - Black Fury Galliard Fostern (rank 2) - She's most definitely a BF, but she's more passionate in her motives and reactions than she is straightforward rar, i will kick your ass, thus making her a Galliard.  Out of all the Seitokai, she's the one that uses stories to teach lessons (in a way) at the end with her tale of her sister drowning.  Also, galliards are much more ferocious than Ahrouns when something they are passionate about is threatened.

Touga - Shadow Lord Ragabash Fostern (rank 2) - Touga will make deals with the devil to get the power he wants, put himself in compromising positions if he feels he'll benefit in the end while trying to manipulate everyone else around him.  This explains the Shadow Lord very well.  As for Ragabash, he is decisively dishonorable and shady in the tactics he uses.  Instead of relying on his own swordskill, he uses underhanded methods to give him an edge.  Presumably he could take Utena on in a fair fight, but he thinks "where's the fun in that?"  he understands the rules, but he purposefully twists them to his own devices to win - classic Ragabash.

Saionji - Get of Fenris Ahroun Fostern (rank 2) - you pegged him well here.  His anger, his need to fight, his misogynistic views, his intolerance, yet he is whole-heartedly dedicated woth what he believes is right, even if no one else does. 
   
Miki - Silver Fang Galliard Fostern (rank 2) - High breeding, artistic inspiration, family expectations, bright future, Silver Fang all the way.

I made all of the Seitokai Fostern because they are much more knowledgeable in the ways of Ohtori than the others, having been exposed to much more and also given responsibilities/training for leadership positions.  They are more than "children", they are "youths".

Other Duelists:

Nanami - Shadow Lord Philodox Cliath (rank 1) - Nanami wants to be like her brother, idolizes him as well as rules the social roost at Phtori.  Her methods are also underhanded and selfish, but she's Philodox because she rarely does the fighting herself.  She understands the rules, in an odd manner, and sends in her henchwomen to take care of matters for her.  You could argue that Nanami's tendency to get caught up in things and take them past where they should end makes her an Ahroun, but in her duel with Utena, she continues because what she was fighting for wasn't the Rose Brride.  She really didn't want to be in the duels, she just wanted to kick Utena's ass for what she believed was right.  just because her rose was goner didn't mean that Utena was going to stop doing what Nanami believed was wrong.

Ruka - Fianna Ahroun Adren (rank 3) - Ruka had been in the duels before he got sick, from the implications given, presumably the year before when Juri wasn't on the Seitokai.  He's not nearly so noble to be a Silver Fang, thus I place him as a Fianna.  Fianna believe that malady of the body is malady of the spirit.  Ruka's health was failing for reasons we're never told.  He comes back, when he knew his body wasn't going to be able to handle it, to free Juri.  In the scope of Garou, I see this as Ruka dwelling on the fact that his body and therefore his spirit was weak and fading away.  he had one last chance before he returned to Gaia to show everyone, including himself, that he wasn't lost, that he still could give meaning to his existence and thus deny the weakness of his spirit.  Fianna are generally weakwilled when it comes to something that means a lot to them, family and love being the two biggest, and it shows in Ruka.

Black Rose Duelists:

kanae - Silver Fang Philodox Fostern (rank 2) - The hairman's daughter, she's got high class breeding and great expecttions.  She's almost graduated, so she's up there in rank a bit, just about ready to be an "adult" with an intimate knowledge of what's right and what's wrong.  She's just a bit of a doormat.

Kozue- Shadow Lord Galliard Fostern (rank 2) - Kozue has moved along with her brother, just in the shadows by choice.  She may have had Silver Fang pure breed, just as her brother does, but she turned from the path her family wanted for her, deciding she couldn't be like her brother and stepping into the darker places.  This is why she's Shadow Lord instead of Silver Fang.  Kozue flaunts the things she can do, chooses to be underhanded and also chooses her battle grounds to control Miki without him realizing it.  This makes her a Shadow Lord.  I'm also placing her as a Fostern instead of a Cliath because she's advanced like Miki has, just through vastly different means.

Shiori - Bone Gnawer Theurge Cliath (rank 1) - Shiori is plain, overlooked and ordinary that grew up latching onto a more powerful, respected friend.  Yet, she believed Juri was only her friend out of pity for the "less fortunate, plain girl" and whereas Gnawers wll use such pity toi their advantage when it suits them, overall they hate being pitied.  Gnawers like to collect stuff, things that make them, in their own minds, better than those around them.  The boy from her childhood with Juri was just another form of "stuff".  She's a theurge because Shiori sees the world in a way that no one else does.  Plus, if we factor the movie in at all, she talks to dead people aka sprirts.

Wakaba - Child of Gaia Philodox Cliath (rank 1) - Wakaba's so nice, earnest and undeniably fair.  She's willing to help out anyone that appeals to her good sense.

Keiko - Shadow Lord Ahroun Cliath (rank 1) - in the same pack with Nanami, keiko is actually the "beat stick" of that pack (Nanami and her Henchwomen).  When Anthy needs a little slapping, Keiko's the one to do it.  She devotely follows her pack alpha and when she focuses on something that her alpha has claimed, she effectively loses her temper and goes about solving her problem in a way that wasn't the smartest.

Tsuwubaki - Silent Strider Galliard cub (rank 0) - On the verge of his Rite of Passage, Mitsuru is almost as obsessed with Nanami as she is with Touga.  Mitsuru, though, is still learning who he is and where he is called to.  He eventually feels like his work isn't being apprecieted and, almost, like Nanami is unreasonably tying him down once things are pointed out by Mari.  You take a Silent Strider and chain him down and you have one Garou that's ripe for the pickings.

Mikage - Glass Walker Theruge Adren (rank 3) - I'd actaully consider Mikage to be a highly corrupted, if not fallen, GW.  He's got the science thing going on and he uses spirits, that have also been corrupted, to posses the Black Rose Duelists.  He has a vision of what things were like and how to keep them that way, but keep them with the times as well.

Puppetmasters:

Anthy - Uktena Philodox Anthro (rank 4) - Her brother came into his power as Dios well before she found hers, Anthy is the keeper of the ways.  She's not a Theurge, because she's not questioning the way her broother does things, looking for more and more answers, she moves about, chronicling them in her mind's eye and does her best, even if it's subconsciously, to allow things to run smoothly.  She facilitates the Black Rose by becoming Mamiya.  She prepares the duels as a Master of Challenges.  With all her magic, one would think she'd be a Theurge, but Philodox are more than capable of using rites to their advantage, sometimes being even more powerful because htey understand balance, unlike the Theurges. 

Akio - Black Spiral Dancer Theurge Elder (rank 5) - Akio might have been good at one point, back in the days of Dios, but he fell to his own corruption and chose the path of darkness and evil.  He's trapped in his own little world or his own creating believing, with delusions of grandeur, that he can recapture the power he lost when he fell and Gaia forsook him.  A master manipulator, he uses all his gifts to try and corrupt others, bring them into his fold, only to use them to get what he thinks is rightfully his.  Family ties mean nothing to him, friendship means nothing, and love is simply a toy to use to further play with his prey.  Why do all the work when they can do it for him, becoming more like him, more locked into his world, with each step further down the spiral.


You know, this kind of turned into an analysis.  Unfortunately, I only think it's useful to those that also understand the Werewolf: the Apocalypse game.

Yasha wrote:

I did have a question, though-- Why Touga as Brujah? The rest of the clans seem to fit the characters well enough, but the whole hedonistic backbiting rumor/powermongering socialite Toreador seems to fit him to a tee.

Then again, I'm a huge Torrie fan, and a huge Touga fan, so maybe I'm just biased...

I was thinking more along the lines of really wanting to revolutionize the world, the amount of crap he stirs up, that sort of thing.  I could see him as a Toreador too -- a poseur who tries to do everything all artfully.

Akio a Malkavian? I would have expected a sneaky Lasombra or perhaps Setite...
And Gangrel Wakaba? I'm sure there's an interesting reason behind that - I demand to find out what it is!

Incidentally, does anyone have any clue what our favourite characters would be under the new WoD system? From what I've heard of it, it's not as grossly overdone as the original WoD - though with enough time I'm sure it'll be able to compete. Never gotten to play with it, though - it's been ages since I've gotten to play a tabletop RPG...

tohubohu wrote:

I had Utena as a cub because she's completely clueless in the ways of the Garou/Student Council.  Over the course of the series, she gets moderately more clue, but she doesn't actually realize most of the serious behind-the-scenes stuff until quite late.  So I would set her Rite of Passage as being the locating of the Rose Gate, which doesn't happen until the end of the series.  One expects that after opening the Rose Gate, she'd be a full-fledged Garou, understanding a lot more about the fundamentals of what's going on around her.

Of course, I'm a fan of long, baroque Rites of Passage.

I would see the last scene more as a rank challenge than as a Rite of Passage.  Cliath barely know enough to keep their fur on their backs.  If we think of Ohtori as a sept, yes, Utena might not udnerstand the specific ways of the sept, but she does understand the basics of Garou society.  She sees wrong-doing and challenges Saionji.  She uses her gifts to her advantage.  Naiive, oh yes, but totally clueless like a cub, I disagree.  She simply doesn't understand the interactions between the different packs at the sept and being a Ragabash, feels the need to question and poke at everything she sees, especially if it doesn't make sense and she thinks those particular Garou need to open their eyes/change.

Lightice wrote:

Akio a Malkavian? I would have expected a sneaky Lasombra or perhaps Setite...

I thought about Lasombra or Setite, but I came down on the side of "batshit crazy, but like a fox".  My own personal quirk.

Lightice wrote:

And Gangrel Wakaba? I'm sure there's an interesting reason behind that - I demand to find out what it is!

I suppose it's just because she always seems fairly alone, except around Utena.  I could've made her a Caitiff, I suppose.  In the end, I opted for Gangrel because it's my favorite clan.

Lightice wrote:

Incidentally, does anyone have any clue what our favourite characters would be under the new WoD system? From what I've heard of it, it's not as grossly overdone as the original WoD - though with enough time I'm sure it'll be able to compete. Never gotten to play with it, though - it's been ages since I've gotten to play a tabletop RPG...

I haven't even looked at the new WoD.  I've heard vague things about it, and none of them encouraged me to go forth and start giving WW my money again.

tohubohu wrote:

I haven't even looked at the new WoD.  I've heard vague things about it, and none of them encouraged me to go forth and start giving WW my money again.

Oh god, same. Also I'm nursing a grudge because they had a burn order on the unsold books from the old editions. MAJOR RAGE. I didn't want to go to the new system, it sounded boring. And they got rid of my favorite clan!

/whining

Yasha wrote:

tohubohu wrote:

I haven't even looked at the new WoD.  I've heard vague things about it, and none of them encouraged me to go forth and start giving WW my money again.

Oh god, same. Also I'm nursing a grudge because they had a burn order on the unsold books from the old editions. MAJOR RAGE. I didn't want to go to the new system, it sounded boring. And they got rid of my favorite clan!

/whining

That's the truth there. I love second edition Werewolf - it busted my roleplaying cherry (at the tender age of eight, no less - that was how the neighborhood babysitter kept us all busy, she ran Werewolf games) and it's still my favorite. New Werewolf stuff? Can't stand it. Dark Ages as a whole different thing rather than just taking the same system and turning back the clock a few hundred years? Doesn't cut it for me. I'm less familiar with Vampire so it doesn't bother me as much, but still.

Oh, and angelicreation you were absolutely spot on. Excellent stuff.

I was going to do the D20 Modern classes for everyone but I don't own the books, I just borrow them from friends and as such I can't think of all of the advanced and prestige classes that would apply to people. I mean, I know Touga would be a Dandy Swordsman and Juri an Archaic Weaponmaster, but beyond that...

ShatteredMirror wrote:

I love second edition Werewolf - it busted my roleplaying cherry (at the tender age of eight, no less - that was how the neighborhood babysitter kept us all busy, she ran Werewolf games) and it's still my favorite.

Did you ever play third edition Werewolf?  it's much superior to second edition in game mechanics and they updated the overall werewolf storyline.  I've got Wyld West Werewolf too, which is so much fun.  *grins*  I love to run a Wyld West campaign in a camp style where we don;t pay much attention to the overall plot of the setting.  Besides, some of the gifts make more sense and they actually gave the Children of Gaia a real disadvantage to them that fits.  If they had kept it through into Apocalypse, the Coggies wouldn't have caused so much damn problems.

angelicreation wrote:

Besides, some of the gifts make more sense and they actually gave the Children of Gaia a real disadvantage to them that fits.  If they had kept it through into Apocalypse, the Coggies wouldn't have caused so much damn problems.

Which problem with the CoGgies are you referring to?  I don't remember them being a particular problem.  (But then, GarouMUSH developed its own "fanon" for tribes and whatnot.  The favorite problem child there was the Lupus Ahroun Stargazer for sheer twink value.)

tohubohu wrote:

Which problem with the CoGgies are you referring to?  I don't remember them being a particular problem.  (But then, GarouMUSH developed its own "fanon" for tribes and whatnot.  The favorite problem child there was the Lupus Ahroun Stargazer for sheer twink value.)

If you take the coggie gifts and give them to somene that is a manipulator, twinkie, you get a nasty garou since the cog gifts can be very overbalancing to game play if one uses them the right way.  Also, the cogs have some of the nastiest rites, like the one that reduces a Garou's PERMANENT rage.  If they had the Wyld West disadvantage instead of the weaker veil (which is a load of crap, really) there would be some mechanic keeping them in check.  Again, I come from the Camarilla where I watched a group of coggie players abuse theit power and ruin a global game.  The thing is, if a coggie is played right, true to the tribe, this isn't an issue.  So many people don't play true to the tribe.   To many people want to be unique fucking snowflakes.

I've never played a good Changeling game. This makes me want to try.

Well I don't know how well it would work...

Actually looking at that again, I'd peg Nanami as Unseelie rather than Seelie, just because she's so petty. Unless of course I'm not recalling correctly and White Wolf has actually defined the Seelie Court as the "good guys" and the Unseelie Court as the "bad guys."