Nova wrote:

Anime is just the Japanese word for "animation," and is not specific to content created in or for Japan.

Yes, that's true, but I didn't see a thread where animation that wasn't from japan was the focus.

Oh, yes, it's definitely there. There are some direct references, and then the show's creator, Rebecca Sugar, mentioned on an interview how she wanted to make a show that told a story that had more layers than it looked like, she talked about "sublime" art, I think,where there's the part you're seeing and the part that's lurking in it or something. I really can't explain it too well, but the interview's here: http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/11/21/rebe … n-universe

There's only 19 aired eps so far (~10 min each), plus the pilot ep, if you'd like to see it.

I've not watched either of the two you've mentioned, but I hear good things about Gravity Falls.

As for me... Well, we've started the new Ghost in the Shell series, and it's been good so far. I like that it combines the detailed nature and character design of the movie with the ...somewhat less bleak... general outlook and palette of the show. I think it's technically quite excellent, although it's strange to see a younger Kusanagi who isn't quite as strong a character as I'm used to. In any event, the Akira-esque bike suit is greatly preferred to her previous battlethongs.


As for shows that aren't currently airing that are awesome... I'm a fan of The Venture Brothers, Archer, The Boondocks,  Bob's Burgers, Bee and Puppycat (so excited for the new season, pleeeease air sooooooon omg) and Bravest Warriors.

Speaking of an Utena-esque influence, the whole reason I was introduced to Bee and Puppycat was my boyfriend calling me into the living room and telling me that I had to watch this  'cause it had "space princes and shadow people like that Utena thing show."

We also tend to buy all of the DCU Animated Universe movies. For the most part they're extremely excellent, although a couple duds here and there. The ones that tend to fall flat are those where Jay Oliva or Bruce Timm are uninvolved. Thankfully, they are few and far between, although the most recent release, JLA Adventures in Time is one of them. Which is a shame. Flashpoint Paradox is -like the arc- excellent in it's portrayal of consequences, actions and tragedy. The Young Justice series was phenomenal. A really fantastic follow up to Teen Titans aimed at the same original audience of that show, but aged up. While Marvel is doing a really great job building up film franchises, I think WBA's expansion of the DCU movies is an excellent step for them -they really can't compete with the Avengers universe and various franchises, but the animated market for adult oriented superhero movies is pretty untapped. Oliva's adaption of The Dark Knight Returns is hands down the most faithful adaptation of any comic book arc ever. In part, it's because an animated adaption is much easier -Despite Watchmen and V for Vendetta being very excellent movies, they differ (greatly in some ways) from their source material. The Dark Knight Returns doesn't shy away from any of the horrible violence of Frank Miller's graphic novel and it doesn't need to -there's no aging actor to take into account, there's no issues with casting a physically intimidating man who can still play the part of the semi crippled and aged Batman.

I can wax poetic, but I do really enjoy them. I also appreciate that most of them reuse the same voice cast which adds additional continuity between all the movies. I particularly liked their Spectre short. Spectre is a pretty unused character these days, but it's a nice period piece about bloody, supernatural revenge. Very reminiscent of the comics -and the period in time- on which it was based.

@MissMocha: man, the boondocks! I can't wait for season 4, the show has consistent quality, and I love the pointed social criticism and sharp humor. I'm waiting for bee and the puppycats too. And you know, I watched the first episode of bob's burgers, and I thought it was so grim and cynical, does it continue like that or does it soften a bit? I'm really on the wall on this one.

OhtoriExpress wrote:

Oh god. Lower your expectations considerably. The commentary in season 4 isn't nearly as biting as it used to be, and that's when it's not just missing the mark entirely. I'm not sure if the show suffered because Mcgruder bailed, or if Mcgruder bailed because he wasn't happy with the direction the show was going. I've seen shows slowly decline in quality, but never such a sharp, sudden nosedive.

Is it as bad as the transition from atla to korra? Because if so, I don't think I'll watch it.

I've only just started watching Bob's Burgers but I think it's actually the lack of cynicism that's a big part of my enjoying it so much. It's crude as hell, but it's got heart.

You're right, it's not really cynicism, what I wonder is if such creepy things as the human flesh stuff will show again, that was disturbing.

Since you enjoy bob's burgers (though I've seen only the first episode, it shows up enough on my dash that I get the jist of it), I suggest you watch Mission Hill, it's only 13 episodes long (all on youtube) and incredibly well done.

OhtoriExpress wrote:

I haven't seen either Avatar series, so I can't really comment on that. It's not a good transition at all though, so I'd say season 4 is pretty skippable. I kinda wish I did.

I'll skip it. And I recommend Avatar, the first season's more simple than the next two, but don't get deceived by it, a lot of stuff is building up the next two seasons, really worth it in the end. It also shines in how it deals with abusive relationships and layered characters. Also, Mark Hamill voices the bad guy.

I don't think anyone actually ate any dead people, it was just a misunderstanding.

Oh, I know. It's just that it's one of those things where it's not some exagerated hypothetical situation, it's something that has happened before in the world, it gave me bad vibes. I'll give the series another chance though.

I haven't seen Mission Hill in years! Watching the first episode again is reminding me of how great it was. It's really too bad that it was cancelled before it could finish it's run.

It is! I feel sorry for the people behind it, such care and attention to detail, I'm glad it wasn't forgotten.

OnlyInThisLight wrote:

Mocha, Mocha.  That thing you are doing.  Right now.  Stop.  Hands down.  Stop it.

And go watch Steven Universe.

Lol, Despite my like for Bravest Warriors, and my admiration of what Cartoon Hangover has done, I actually am not a huge fan of Pendelton Ward. I just couldn't get into Adventure Time. Like, at all. Which is a shame, because a BUNCH of my favorite artists are fans of it, or have worked on it or on it's associated media. A lot of my friends adore it, but... I just... can't. I've tried like six times, too. So I never bothered with Steven Universe -despite the BW tie in- because Pendleton. :/

But I'll give it a shot, since our tastes tend to coincide on a lot of things.

Ainha wrote:

Bob's Burgers

It's got a lot of charm -the family is a family and has all the baggage it comes with. Also, Bob is a terrible punster and this endears him to me. Greatly. There's a lot to like about it -all of the actors do a really great job with their characters, and the writing is pretty excellent. Episodes like Mother Daughter Laser Razor manage to resolve family conflict sweetly without being saccharine, and others like It Snakes a Village are just wonderfully surreal ludicrousness.

Ainha wrote:

Avatar and LoK

Man... I fucking loved Avatar. Like... even the filler episodes. Great cast, fantastic art direction, beautiful backgrounds, decent camera work, gorgeous scoring, nuanced and conflicted characters and motivations, amazing design and world building. A little simplistic at times -but hey, it was originally aimed at a younger audience, so I forgive them that. Just...all around balls out fucking amazing quality show. The Last Agni Kai? Goddamned fucking chilling. Haunting. Easily in my top 10 animated moments in like, ever. I was pretty excited for Korra. I liked that they were going with a female Avatar. I really loved the idea of a world in the midst of an Industrial Revolution. I liked the fusion of the steampunk aspects -combining the Fire nation technology with the ingenuity of the Earth nation. I even thought Pro Bending was a clever facet to the world they created -not as a focus of the show, but an interesting tidbit.


And then .... it just... It was pretty difficult to like any of the characters, that fucking unnecessary love triangle bullshit, the lack of nuance or cleverness -the absolute shitty treatment of the whole Equalists plot. Oh my god, it could have been so good. I really felt like TLA was great in terms of always having a point to it, a logical culmination being worked towards. It was unlike traditional western cartoons in that there was always a clear, defined goal for the endgame -it didn't just meander endlessly. I feel like Korra meanders to a point that's awful. I mean... Harmonic Convergence? That whole thing felt so fucking slipshod and it's what they should have been building to. Sigh. I feel like I'm being harsh on it because I know that they're capable of so much better (and now I suddenly understand why all my teachers were so mean to my lazy ass), and in the long run, Korra isn't bad, it's just... average.

Although, I'm going to leave you guys on a slightly sweeter note than all that bitching. I really like to check out Ringling College's senior thesis projects, and The Legend of the Flying Tomato is one that I think is particularly sweet.

Last edited by MissMocha (07-15-2014 08:03:54 AM)

Aninha wrote:

MissMocha wrote:

But I'll give it a shot, since our tastes tend to coincide on a lot of things.

Not liking AT really doesn't mean you won't like SU, the style is a little reminiscent of AT, but not much more beyond that.

Rebecca Sugar was a writer and storyboardist for AT, so it's probably safe to venture they have similarities. But still, I'll look into it.

As for DiMartino and Konietzko, I haven't read anything that seems condescending. Do you have some links? I'm always interested in industry interviews. As far as them trolling the fandom... seemed like everyone at that viewing had a good time. Besides, I don't see how it's offensive -I have never and will never understand the fandom position that content creators "owe" fans anything. Anyway, considering how heavily involved they were in terms of writing and directing, they certainly weren't just of the "sit back and let the minions do it" school of production -belittling their involvement in the show belittles what TLA itself achieved and absolves them of their share of the blame that is LOK's disorganization. But that's my two cents; ymmv.

Edit: also idk if this is the place for it or not, but has anyone been following the wage fixing scandal going on?

Last edited by MissMocha (07-15-2014 11:12:39 AM)

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

MissMocha wrote:

also idk if this is the place for it or not, but has anyone been following the wage fixing scandal going on?

I hadn't. The not-a-molester-just-crazy/immature thing was the only recent animation scandal I picked up on.

Do tell.

Well, let's trade scandals, 'cause I missed that one.

As for the wage fixing, it looks to have sprung out of the antitrust investigations currently ongoing in the tech industry. Pando has been doing some excellent coverage, and while this recent article is more or less mid-series, I feel like it does an excellent job conveying the basics. Which are pretty self explanatory: The heads of major animation studios (Pixar, ILM, Disney and Dreamworks) colluded in an unofficial agreement not to "raid" each other, by attempting to hire away animators, producers, directors, etc. Because of this, wages for that industry have been kept at a non competitive, non market low. Undervaluing work (especially in a location as expensive as the Bay Area) is never healthy for the economy or the worker -but it does lead to higher profits and upper management dividends (I'm sure my bias is showing, but whatever). But the biggest thing about undervaluing work like this is that it also leads to the loss of smaller start ups, places like The Orphanage or Rhythm & Hues -who won 3 Oscars for their effects work and promptly went bankrupt after the third.

But anyway, many of the emails included in the Pando story are infuriating -especially where Steve Jobs responds to news of someone being fired at another company for daring to cold contact him. That email is in a different article, but man, does it add fuel to my SJ-is-a-dickwad-fire.

Edit: OH AND IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR LIKE 25 FUCKING YEARS.

Last edited by MissMocha (07-15-2014 12:05:41 PM)

MissMocha wrote:

As for DiMartino and Konietzko, I haven't read anything that seems condescending. Do you have some links?

Sure, go to their tumblrs. There's, for example, a little comic that's supposed to be funny I guess, in which they bluntly say the people who've got any complaints about korra are fangirls who just can't deal with complex storylines interfering with their bubbly shallow ships.

Besides, I don't see how it's offensive -I have never and will never understand the fandom position that content creators "owe" fans anything.

That's not really a good wording for what I believe, I think creators should have some semblance of respect, courtesy, and consideration for the people who invest their minds, emotions, time and sometimes money in what they produced. A show may be great, but it's a fandom actively and continuously investing in it that doesn't let it fall to obscurity.

On the other end, I can think: if creators owe fans nothing, then by proxy fans owe creators nothing. Which means I don't owe my loyalty to them. They have all the rights to do as they please, and I have the right to leave.

Anyway, considering how heavily involved they were in terms of writing and directing, they certainly weren't just of the "sit back and let the minions do it" school of production -belittling their involvement in the show belittles what TLA itself achieved and absolves them of their share of the blame that is LOK's disorganization. But that's my two cents; ymmv.

My impression is they had that team in atla, and then didn't for korra, so we can see just how much credit the team had.

Edit: also idk if this is the place for it or not, but has anyone been following the wage fixing scandal going on?

Nope, but I followed the clarence one, to think even today this sort of thing happens.

Decrescent Daytripper wrote:

Watching the dtv Wonder Woman movie again, to get the taste of the incredibly shitty Batman & Son out of my brain.

They need to stop burning through the robins like that, it makes batman look bad.

Aninha wrote:

Daria

Way back when, I was a huge fan of Daria and when it was popular everyone constantly nagged me about how like her I was. That's still pretty true, I'm more outgoing now but I'm still just as likely to say something completely fucking morbid.

I rewatched the full run of the show recently, and was actually pleasantly surprised by how intelligent it was. When you're a teenager it just feels familiar and warm because the stereotypes are all there, but watching with more perspective it's actually a pretty biting commentary on the education system, social dynamics, and ultimately it breaks down most of the stereotypes it capitalizes on. It's a fantastic show, it was too good for MTV.

Daria's good. MTV's had some very solid cartoons over the years. Consistently funny, and endearing, and solid stuff.

I never could groove on Hey Arnold, though. Just not my speed.