Killing the Rose Bride, I feel, won't bring harmony to the world. The swords are still gonna look for someone else to stab on. Maybe they'll make a prince out of the one who killed the "witch" and drain that person of his/her life like they did with Dios. Man that would suck.

Oh, a plug.

There's also this thread!

I hate seeing threads like this fall off the first page. So, here's a silly thing to necro over.

I noticed this a long time ago, but never thought much of it. (But hey, it's something to post.) In episode 9, when Saionji is explaining to Utena how he loves Anthy, he remembers an image of her looking up at the castle, saying "Someday, I want to go to that castle hanging in the sky. There is something eternal up there." He tells Utena that Anthy is destined for him because they both so strongly desire something eternal. Here is the shot:


In episode 25, while Touga and Saionji are riding to the End of the World, Touga is trying his hand at manipulation. He asks Saionji about his desires, Saionji refuses to tell him, yadda yadda. Touga says "Well then, why are you striving for that castle said to hold eternity? Isn't that because you believe that if you get there, you will find something eternal?" While he says his line, we see a shot of Saionji looking at the castle:


I always thought it was neato beyond belief, and a good example of Anthy's manipulation. Though we see Anthy's shot first, it's probably the case that Saionji was the one glancing up at the castle, speaking of eternity. For a while, due to the blur of Saionji's memory, I wondered if Anthy had ever even said that at all. Perhaps Saionji's warped desires made him see her this way. Neither is a far cry, but I think it's probably the former.

Yeah, not very deep. Sorry.

That's why I love Saionji so much....u.u;;;;;;;;


I have a question that's probably been asked thousands of times...but I can't find it.



Is the lack of blood in the series (excluding Ruka's bitten lip) symbolic, laziness, or lack of a bigger budget?

Even in the ending episode, Utena's all scratched up and sore, but her real big wounds aren't there. I was like "wait...so she didn't actually stab her? Then...why is Utena acting like she's really badly hurt? I DON'T GET IT."

Not to mention when Saionji slashed Touga's back. I always thought when I was younger that Saionji barely missed Touga, and that Touga was REALLY overreacting. But that's when I was confused by the whole anime and never really read between the lines. Besides, if Saionji missed Touga, then the redhead wouldn't have been all bandaged up in the next episode.

st0dad wrote:

Is the lack of blood in the series (excluding Ruka's bitten lip) symbolic, laziness, or lack of a bigger budget?

My personal answer would be none of the above. I'd blame it on the idea that, at its core, SKU is still a shoujo anime, and shoujo anime aren't notorious for using blood.

About Kanae... (Yeah, I'm obsessed with Kanae right now. I'll pass eventually, and then return again later.) She always sounded like she talked kind of funny to me, and I'm surprised that I didn't realize sooner that she sounds a lot like those mothers you always see on anime that don't have much of a point but are there anyway just to show up every now and then when it's convenient to the plot.

Hmm... I thought that I had more Kanae-related symbolism, or symbolism in general, but I can't seem to think of anything else right now. And I guess that it isn't really symbolism, but maybe it has a deeper meaning?

Razara wrote:

About Kanae... (Yeah, I'm obsessed with Kanae right now. I'll pass eventually, and then return again later.) She always sounded like she talked kind of funny to me, and I'm surprised that I didn't realize sooner that she sounds a lot like those mothers you always see on anime that don't have much of a point but are there anyway just to show up every now and then when it's convenient to the plot.

Hmm... I thought that I had more Kanae-related symbolism, or symbolism in general, but I can't seem to think of anything else right now. And I guess that it isn't really symbolism, but maybe it has a deeper meaning?

Lilys can symbolize death, and I tend to think Kanae as well as Ruka never really existed.  A bit of a ghost, like the elements used in the movie.
She seems so utterly complacent, and only shows up right in the times where guilt is needed to be used on Utena, to make her admit what she is doing isn't pure.  Also, everything about her seemed off, doll-like.

dollface wrote:

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I don't think it would really put that much of a dent in the budget to have blood in some of the more crucial scenes (in every duel, it would be a bit much), and with all the effort they put in for some of the ridiculous imagery, I can't help but stray away from laziness as well.

It could be symbolic, but it would be a pretty long-running metaphor. And besides, blood is shown more than once in the manga, and though Ikuni definately did a 180 on a lot of it, I don't think he intentionally strayed away from that to express anything. But I do imagine that because so much of the story is a debate on what is and isn't truly there, being able to see physical injury could edit the illusion that Akio has created.

Agreed.  I think the lack of blood adds to the heightened surrealism of thew whole show; if we had real blood and real injuries onscreen, that's a concrete idea, and Utena has never been about making things concrete for the veiwer.  Besides, the duels themselves often don't stick to the bounds of reality anyway (consider the way Juri lost her rose in her first duel)  I do think that blood would be distracting, at the very least.  And yeah, it's a shojo anime, so blood generally isn't shown.

Of course my cute observation breaks down with the Utena part.

Does it? Because, (apart from Anthy), she's the only person which has her first name written in katakana, which I'd consider more simple than kanji.

Not to mention that writing their first names in Katakana also implies that Utena is foreign. It not only indicates simplicity, but also that Utena is not a normal part of the coffin game.

Minato wrote:

Juri says there are no such things as miracles and Ruka says miracles are something based on the sacrifices of others (Something like that....) But that wouldn't really be a miracle.

I thought the same thing, but I think that the miracle he was talking about was Juri, because he said something like, "Miracles only come to people like her [Shiori]! Don't you think that's unfair, Juri?" But then I wouldn't understand his talk about sacrifices. Maybe he means Juri's sacrificing any romance she may have with Shiori, because it's forever one-sided? (He doesn't like Shiori, so maybe he believes that it's a miracle Juri wasn't able to be an item with her. ) Or maybe Shiori's sacrificing her friendship with Juri, and it's saying that people who sacrifice something to obtain a "miracle" are wrong? I mean, Shiori believed miracles could tell other people what she feels, and if one agrees with the essay "Perfection's Shadow," then Ruka's quote could possibly be referring to that. The miracle, then, could be Juri's resentment for Shiori (or her no longer pitying her); which is no miracle at all.

Then again I could just be rambling because I'm just procratinating in studying for my test tomorrow.

I always took that line in a bit of support for my anti-religion train of thought. In the real world, people can frequently give credit where it is not due-- I'm not insulting anyone's religion, and I apologize if I offend anyone. When "good luck" befalls you, people say it's God. Not the people around you, not the force within yourself, but God. For example, when someone is in a car accident, they break several bones and suffer trauma to the skull, causing internal bleeding. Paramedics, who have studied vigorously, rush to the scene, doing all that is in their power to sustain you. At the hospital, doctors, who have practiced and practiced day and night, work for upwards of an entire day putting you back together, performing risky and extensive surgery. In the end, when the healing process has finally been completed, who do you credit? "I thank God every day for saving my life." Now, yes, there is a debate about God giving the doctors life and playing with time and simply giving you the push not to lean the other way, but all in all, it isn't a miracle. It's human science and knowledge. While this isn't always the case, it does play into SKU. Shiori thinks of the good things in her life as a miracle. Because this has never proven her wrong before, she passes this thought onto Juri-- all it takes is a miracle, and her feelings would be returned, whatever they may be. But this isn't so. Juri has to work to keep this secret a secret, and were she to be honest about these feelings, there is no guaruntee that Shiori could do anything to lessen them. The same is true for Ruka-- if all it took to make Juri happy was willpower, Shiori never would have come back to the academy. Obviously wishing didn't work, so he had to crawl out of his hospital bed and do something himself. He had to make sacrifices, just as Juri did, and just as Shiori does. Trouble is, Shiori doesn't understand what her sacrifices are, and her point of view on the matter is limited-- not that this was something she could have changed, either way. I'm not saying anything negative about Shiori, because although what Ruka says is true, there was nothing Shiori could have done in this situation. As bitter as the feelings were, Shiori doesn't have a range of viewpoints. She could only do what she saw fit. Through her eyes, she did what she needed to do, and everything else (Ruka, Juri) seemingly fell into place.

In the end, it wasn't anyone's fault. Unfortunate circumstances and uncertain people.

Not at all-- I think the sacrifices made by Shiori are harder to pinpoint because they're not as textbook as Ruka's. (Not to insult Ruka, just sayin'.) When I began typing this, it was just as hard for me to think of Juri's sacrifices as it was to think of Shiori's. I've concluded that this is because they both make emotional sacrifices more than physical ones. Shiori sacrifices her dignity by crawling back to Juri. This doesn't seem like a sacrifice, but it is just as much of one as Juri's. After all, what does Juri give up in order to help Shiori? It doesn't really happen until Shiori is already in the middle of everything- Juri speaks to Ruka, she attempts communication with Shiori... these are the same manner as what I mentioned prior. Shiori has to hold back her negative emotions and face her fears when she confronts Juri for the first time after returning to the academy. Juri basically does the same when she goes to console her-- there is a rift neither is willing to cross, but for the sake of well-being, they swallow their pride. Although many consider Shiori's reaction to be rather harsh, how was it better than Juri's? She turned her back. She told her they had nothing to discuss. She refused to let Shiori help her. It was a painful rejection, and the knowledge that a risk was taken is hardly comforting. I think both girls can be equally headstrong and stubborn, but at heart, both want to be what makes the other secure and happy. Both sacrifice their natural and animalistic desires, both good and bad, for the facade they've created-- Juri, a panther, beautiful and strong, and a complete ice queen; Shiori, a delicate flower, humble and shy, never speaking out of line or causing a fuss. (Unrelated, but this is why I don't like when people accuse Shiori of overreacting and crying for attention when the break-up with Ruka occurs- it's just not in her character.) And, perhaps even greater, both girls sacrifice this carefully sculpted mold in order to extend a shaking hand to the wounded girl. Whomever is on the other end sacrifices a deep-rooted desire to grab onto that hand in order to maintain face and show the other that they will be the last one standing. It's a never ending circle, a fight between what is natural and what has become acceptable.

It's not a very clear answer, and I'm sorry. At the end, I couldn't really think of how I could word what I was thinking. Forgive me.

Last edited by dollface (02-12-2008 05:43:27 PM)