Yeah. Yeah they did. All throughout the series.

About the only people Akio probably did not have sex with are Nanami, the kitten Nanami drowned, maybe Juri, and the Onion Prince. Everyone else is pretty much fair game, and even that list is open for debate.

Good times on the Ohtori Campus, I think.

It's pretty much at least implied in the series, isn't it?

...I didn't think it was actually debatable, that Touga and Akio were up to a few extracurricular activities in the Chairman's Giant Phallic Office Building. The photo you linked? I actually saw that for the first time BEFORE I saw that arc in a random Japanese magazine I bought because there was an article in it about Utena (not to mention the oddity of a photograph of Ikuhara and Chiho Saitou IN THE AKIO CAR OMG), and thought "...well, considering Akio seemed to be doing everyone else during the Kurobara arc, they are TOTALLY doing it!" And naturally my mind wondered if that photograph was as explicit as it got, because I am a dirty, dirty whore. [hangs head in shame]

...but er, yeah. I think the powerplay between the two and then those they manipulated was an important element of the series, and having Touga be his bitch was part of showing Akio's complete dominion over Ohtori. Other relationships are more debatable -- like Touga and Saionji, for example -- but I think to say Touga and Akio weren't shagging is like saying Akio and Anthy were just drinking tea. NAKED. Because brothers and sisters do that.

...

There are people who think they weren't having sex?

O_o

onsenmark wrote:

It's pretty much at least implied in the series, isn't it?

If by implied you mean 'everything short of hearing the headboard crashing against the wall', then yes.

Kklasha wrote:

Anyone up for a ride in the Akio Car? The car has the magic ability to make people lose their clothing while Akio sits in the hood after he's done with whoever happens to be in the front seat, back seats, or all three. Unsafe driving practices while participating in orgies sums up only one of Akio's many remaining skills from his days as Dios.

He can't possibly be a worse driver than me. I still wonder about this Wakaba business though. She seemed to me largely a device for drawing Utena's jealousy out. More than that and wouldn't he have had to deal with the repercussions of taking the virginity of such a clingy, genki, adoring loudmouth? (Concerning Wakaba, one wonders...what do Akio and Saionji have in common that she'd be attracted to the both of them?)

Clarice wrote:

(not to mention the oddity of a photograph of Ikuhara and Chiho Saitou IN THE AKIO CAR OMG), and thought "...well, considering Akio seemed to be doing everyone else during the Kurobara arc, they are TOTALLY doing it!" And naturally my mind wondered if that photograph was as explicit as it got, because I am a dirty, dirty whore. [hangs head in shame]

GIVE ME THIS PICTURE. I DEMAND THIS PICTURE. It sounds creepy on the same level as that picture of Ikuhara cosplaying Sailor Mars.

Clarice wrote:

...but er, yeah. I think the powerplay between the two and then those they manipulated was an important element of the series, and having Touga be his bitch was part of showing Akio's complete dominion over Ohtori. Other relationships are more debatable -- like Touga and Saionji, for example -- but I think to say Touga and Akio weren't shagging is like saying Akio and Anthy were just drinking tea. NAKED. Because brothers and sisters do that.

I thought all brothers and sisters drank tea naked and then draped their bare bodies across white leather sofas. You mean...they don't?

Anyway, that sounds about right. Funny how Akio seems to make all his powerplays sexual. It's like he enjoys it. I do have to wonder. Do you look down on Touga for whoring himself out this way, or do you admire the sheer powerlust that drove him to do something so blatantly about his submission? I somehow doubt Touga found it physically unpleasant, or even that it was a total break from his own gender preferences (seems like the sort to wade in both ends of the pool), but it's definitely not something that happened out of mutual attraction. Whoever started it (Akio, I imagine), did so to put him squarely in a very, very undeniable submissive position. How effective when used on someone like Touga, who sees the entire student population submit to him in much the same way. (Though for different reasons.)

I'm pleasantly surprised by the lack of people saying they didn't have sex, though. I recall it being a very contested issue back in the old days. (I have a cane I wave about in moments like these.)

Sey wrote:

Yes they had sex, in my opinion.

See the previous scene of the pic that Giovanna posted and semply look at Touga. He talks with a bit of pleasure in his voice, so I presume he talks after having orgasm; the scene gaves me this feelings.
I don't know way they did it, but sure they did.

I don't know whether you've heard the Japanese vocals, which thoroughly support that statement (oh god ), but I just checked the Italian one, and you are thoroughly right. Touga sounds especially breathy and shagged out. When tone of voice bleeds through so obviously in two different languages I don't natively speak, well...gets the point across, eh?

Kklasha wrote:

About the only people Akio probably did not have sex with are Nanami, the kitten Nanami drowned, maybe Juri, and the Onion Prince. Everyone else is pretty much fair game, and even that list is open for debate.

This seems overbroad   I'm with others in doubting he did Wakaba, though I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  I'd also add Miki, Kozue, and Shiori to the list.  There's no evidence he screwed Miki, and I don't see how Akio would have profited from it.  Shiori wouldn't get it on with Akio unless she thought it would hurt Juri.  And Kozue wouldn't get it on with Akio unless she thought Miki would notice.  I can't see Akio and Mikage, either, though Akio and Nemuro is a possibility.

Touga and Akio, however, are totally making it.  I suspect they're both enjoying it, but they're mostly trying to manipulate each other.  Touga starts out really bad at manipulating Akio but gets a little better; Akio starts out good at manipulating Touga but gets progressively worse (or rather, Touga gets progressively better at developing a spine/moral center).

What about Ruka?

azuresquirrel wrote:

Considering Wakaba is Utena's equal when it comes to sexual experience (though I bet that unlike Utena she has about a million erotic novels that she had to hide from Saionji while he stayed there ), her losing her virginity would have been a big deal, as it was for Utena. If Wakaba wasn't so close to Utena, I have no doubt that Akio would've done her for the hell for it, but for his plan he needed to make Utena sufficiently interested in him sexually without making him look like a man-skank. While Utena does not associate him with her Prince, he's still aware that she won't go for someone how doesn't act in a noble manner (twisted ankle anyone?). Her knowing about his promiscuous nature beforehand would have definately stopped his plan right there.

Exactly. The way I figure it, had he slept with her...well Utena being her best friend and confidante, she'd have found out real quick. Wouldn't have worked for Akio. Poor fella.

As to this hypothesis about Wakaba and erotic novels...you know I'd never really thought that but good lord does it make sense.

azuresquirrel wrote:

Getting back to Wakaba, I always figured that she started crushing on Akio after getting over Saionji because he's so unlike him. He's older, experienced, cool, collected, and definately not needy like Saionji (to everyone except Anthy that is, but that's another post).

Yeah, he's a rather large departure from Saionji, but doesn't it seem relevant that her choices in attraction go from bad to worse? One is violent and short-tempered, the other is emotionally abusive and deliberately cruel. Wakaba appears in the series to represent the everyday girl, I wonder if they're hinting at something that she thwarts the good guy that adores her and instead it's men that are no good at all for her that she's drawn to.

Is Ikuhara one of those whiny good guys that wonders why it's always the bad ones that win?

skewed_tartan wrote:

Of course after that one duel, I can't remember whose, where Touga and Akio are laying on a bed and arching their bodies in irregular but erotic poses pretty much cinched any doubt I had they were banging each other.

Now Wakaba is more vague though Akio does say "if you have three hours" which is suspiciously long for a drive but then again he may have been manipulating Utena's easily recognizable jealousy. So mostly I'm undecided myself and I don't really mind its never going to be answered.

Off the top of my head, after Saionji's duel and Nanami's. They sound especially purry after Saionji's, though.

I don't think the period of time is meant to suggest anything but that it'll be a long date. The kind you get jealous over. Wakaba remembers the whole thing very fondly, there's no suggesting he moved in on her or even tried to kiss her (she'd have mentioned this I bet). Kinda feel bad for her.

And enjoy. The wanking icons I'm especially fond of myself.

Well I hope that Akio has had his shots, cos playing 'hide the sausage' with a guy who has slept with almost every female on campus (well except for Utena, Anthy, Wakaba and (hopefully) Chu-Chu), he has bound to have caught something unpleasent somewhere.

Last edited by Tamago (10-17-2006 09:53:10 AM)

I wouldn't be surprised, but it's not a definite "yes" on my part, even though the scenes with them on the bed are very.... yeah. But like I said, I wouldn't be surprised. But what I'm wondering is, how would it have gone? Touga is very power-hungry so he always seems to want to be the dominating one, but then again, he -is- following after Akio all this time. So maybe he wants to learn more about gaining power by getting close (ahem) with the big boss.

Clarice wrote:

(not to mention the oddity of a photograph of Ikuhara and Chiho Saitou IN THE AKIO CAR OMG), and thought "...well, considering Akio seemed to be doing everyone else during the Kurobara arc, they are TOTALLY doing it!" And naturally my mind wondered if that photograph was as explicit as it got, because I am a dirty, dirty whore. [hangs head in shame]

Giovanna wrote:

GIVE ME THIS PICTURE. I DEMAND THIS PICTURE. It sounds creepy on the same level as that picture of Ikuhara cosplaying Sailor Mars.

Heh heh heh. It always amused me greatly. Unfortunately I don't think I have it scanned on my external harddrive, and I couldn't even be a hundred percent sure of where the magazine is now. [ducks thrown objects] The other difficult thing is that although I could in theory go and hunt this picture out, I am in Sheffield and the magazine in question is in Invercargill. If you have no idea of the distance between these places, suffice it to say it's about the size of the Pacific Ocean plus the entire continent of North America. ^___^;; For posterity, though, I do actually have a scan of the page of the magazine I mentioned:

Clarice wrote:

...but er, yeah. I think the powerplay between the two and then those they manipulated was an important element of the series, and having Touga be his bitch was part of showing Akio's complete dominion over Ohtori. Other relationships are more debatable -- like Touga and Saionji, for example -- but I think to say Touga and Akio weren't shagging is like saying Akio and Anthy were just drinking tea. NAKED. Because brothers and sisters do that.

Giovanna wrote:

I thought all brothers and sisters drank tea naked and then draped their bare bodies across white leather sofas. You mean...they don't?

Apparently it's illegal. Or so I understand. [thoughtful]

Giovanna wrote:

Anyway, that sounds about right. Funny how Akio seems to make all his powerplays sexual. It's like he enjoys it. I do have to wonder. Do you look down on Touga for whoring himself out this way, or do you admire the sheer powerlust that drove him to do something so blatantly about his submission? I somehow doubt Touga found it physically unpleasant, or even that it was a total break from his own gender preferences (seems like the sort to wade in both ends of the pool), but it's definitely not something that happened out of mutual attraction. Whoever started it (Akio, I imagine), did so to put him squarely in a very, very undeniable submissive position. How effective when used on someone like Touga, who sees the entire student population submit to him in much the same way. (Though for different reasons.)

I never liked Touga much as a character anyway, to be honest -- I was always one of those fangirls who got irons thrown at her head because she dared to say that perhaps Saionji was misunderstood and Ruka was actually doing what he did for Juri's own good. But no, I don't look down on him; it was part of his character. He was willing to sell out even himself for power, which while not exactly admirable was at least very interesting. I liked that he got some redemption at the end of the series, but I still don't think even after all that he'd say no to a vibrator with an "AKIOCAR" setting. Oh, the memories...

Giovanna wrote:

I'm pleasantly surprised by the lack of people saying they didn't have sex, though. I recall it being a very contested issue back in the old days. (I have a cane I wave about in moments like these.)

I don't blame you. I can accept debate on Mamiya/Mikage and Saionji/Touga and all manner of others, but that was just obvious...even for a bloody ambiguous show like this. Ha.

Last edited by Clarice (10-17-2006 02:11:16 PM)

Clarice wrote:

I never liked Touga much as a character anyway, to be honest -- I was always one of those fangirls who got irons thrown at her head because she dared to say that perhaps Saionji was misunderstood and Ruka was actually doing what he did for Juri's own good. But no, I don't look down on him; it was part of his character. He was willing to sell out even himself for power, which while not exactly admirable was at least very interesting. I liked that he got some redemption at the end of the series, but I still don't think even after all that he'd say no to a vibrator with an "AKIOCAR" setting. Oh, the memories...

But Saionji it *totally* misunderstood and of course Ruka did what he did for Juri's own good...  Right?  RIGHT?

Seriously - I think Touga went for Akio on the theory that he could manipulate Akio the same way he manipulated Siaonji and Nanami.  He was just... outclassed.

Very very outclassed.

....

I'll be in my bunk.

Tamago wrote:

Well I hope that Akio has had his shots, cos playing 'hide the sausage' with a guy who has slept with almost every female on campus (well except for Utena, Anthy, Wakaba and (hopefully) Chu-Chu), he has bound to have caught something unpleasent somewhere.

Well really between the two of them you have to wonder who should be more concerned with that. While it seems pretty reasonable to me to think Touga's having sex with more people, Akio's certainly not staying at home with a porno (), now is he? And afterhow many decades and centuries...I would say Akio's black book looks something like the Vatican archives. And just a little more risque!

I think, though, that we have to assume they both are blessed with the same complete immunity to STDs that James Bond has. Otherwise they'd look like Johnny Depp at the end of The Libertine. (If you don't know, don't ask.)

Frau Eva wrote:

After many years of clamoring for a continuation of his famous Shoujo Kakumei Utena series, Kunihiko Ikuhara has finally released details of his new straight-to-video series, "Akio Does Tokyo."

Make this "Akio Does New York City" and I will spend my life glued to the TV. But actually this is a thread idea in the making. Hmm.

Clarice wrote:

Unfortunately I don't think I have it scanned on my external harddrive

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Clarice wrote:

I never liked Touga much as a character anyway, to be honest -- I was always one of those fangirls who got irons thrown at her head because she dared to say that perhaps Saionji was misunderstood and Ruka was actually doing what he did for Juri's own good. But no, I don't look down on him; it was part of his character. He was willing to sell out even himself for power, which while not exactly admirable was at least very interesting.

Some of the really old fans might recall this, but I had a clique on Empty Movement once that called for Touga to be castrated without anesthesia. I was truly vehement in my hatred of him, but I admit my exposure to the series hadn't been too thorough at the time. Yasha nagged me into paying more attention and now I appreciate him for the calculating powerlusting whore that he is. Besides, the whole relationship he has with Akio is loads and loads of psychofunfunfun. I suck at being a shipper, it's obvious the last thing I want is for my characters to love each other. No, I demand brutal powerplays and body selling and submission and hot sex! (What?)

Clarice wrote:

I still don't think even after all that he'd say no to a vibrator with an "AKIOCAR" setting. Oh, the memories...

He would have to pry it from my COLD. DEAD. FINGERS.

All joking (WHERE CAN I BUY THIS THING) aside, I agree. It was what it was and boy was that a bad thing, but I somehow doubt he'll ever be able to say the sex wasn't fantastic. Akio just doesn't strike me as someone that would bother with doing anything halfass (hurr). If anything, that would have made it worse for Touga, for reasons I'm currently too tired to flesh out (I keep wording things bad, huh). If nothing else, domination through pleasure is a concept Touga would understand very well. After all, do you think all those girls he obviously doesn't care for go home unsatisfied?

Trouble wrote:

Seriously - I think Touga went for Akio on the theory that he could manipulate Akio the same way he manipulated Siaonji and Nanami.  He was just... outclassed.

Very very outclassed.

Now this I'd love to know for sure. We have no idea on what terms that relationship starts, or what Touga was thinking at the time. It does seem like Touga to assume he can win anyone over. It's not a stretch at all to imagine him initially thinking 'I am a beautiful young man and this older school official is totally seduceable. WIN.' Or it's possible Akio made it clear from the beginning that he'd be in control both in bed and out. I guess it depends on a lot of things. When they met, how they met, what impression Akio decided to give off...