Woul that increase still exsist if Touga was around to screw the bosses daughters??

Giovanna wrote:

Tamago wrote:

I guess you might say that, but in a way, I kinda wished I stayed a girl as it was what I was used to and besides, being a guy makes things too easy for me.

I dunno about Oz, but around these parts you get a permanent 25% increase in all wages being a boy instead of a girl.

BTW, Yasha is totally like Touga. Except in a couple key areas.

In Oz, the main reason that women get paid less as a group is that high end of the business spectrum, its still mostly men, but legally if you apply for the same job, a woman is meant to be paid the same as a man, if it wasn't the case, in this climate of economic rationalism, most businesses would hire only women on the basis of lower cost unless they couldnt find a woman for that job for some reason, but it ain't so it isn't.

I have a habit of analyzing why I like the characters that I do, besides just analyzing them in general. I think a lot of it does relate to me personally, the types of people I'm drawn to, and all that.

I admire Utena, because I look up to athletic, friendly people, since I'm not athletic at all and I'm shy. I also think about gender roles a lot since I've always felt that I'm not the "typical" girl, so the episode where she and Wakaba discuss what's "normal" for other people and what's normal for her really stuck with me.

I sort of relate to Anthy as her classmates see her, the sort of weird quiet one who seems lost in her own thoughts most of the time. I'm also pretty anxious in social situations, so I understood her discomfort in the ball during episode 3.

I have a friend who is a little like Wakaba, and I hope I get more friends like her. I've liked her since the beginning for being so sweet and cheerful and caring and not worrying about what other people think of her, but when she yelled at Touga during that lunch room scene and told Utena to fight to get Anthy back even though she didn't like Anthy, I started to absolutely adore her. And on another note, I've also experienced embarrassment for expressing my crush to a popular boy.

I always tend to feel really sisterly toward cute boy characters like Miki and Mitsuru, since I have a younger brother who I feel really protective of. And I guess in a way I almost relate to Kozue since I don't feel as close to my brother as I used to and I wish we could have some of that closeness back.

Speaking of Miki, I relate to him quite a bit because I'm happy being by myself and I used to have a really innocent view of the world when I was his age. I don't repress things anymore like he does, but our personalities are somewhat similar. My parents also divorced when I was young and I don't care for my stepfather very much.

I really admire people like Juri who are strong and in control, although she's more vulnerable in reality. I also tend to have a thing for cold, sad beauties, and my warm and compassionate nature reacts to the sadness I see in her. I'm also drawn to unrequited love, especially of the same-sex variety, and I empathize with characters who struggle with their sexual orientation since I know I did for a while.

I don't particularly like Shiori or Saionji, but I feel bad for them, since really all they want is a true friend, but unfortunately they've developed into spiteful, jealous people. I actually have a friend who is a lot like Shiori, and another friend who I could feel jealousy for like Shiori does for Juri, but my friend and I don't keep secrets from each other like they did, and I really can't be jealous since she's such a good person.

And as much as I hate to admit it, I see a tiny bit of myself in Nanami too, since I was spoiled for much of my childhood, although I'd never do any of the mean things she does.

I feel really bad for Kanae even though I don't really relate to her at all.

I like the Shadow Play Girls because when I was in high school I often felt separate from everyone else and I was interested in observing the peculiar behavior of adolescents. I have a strange fondness for C-ko.

I have a rather close relationship with the Juri/Shiori/Ruka triad but only because at one point or other in my life so far I've been in their situration. Which has been amusing for me in hindsight because it's intereting to imagine Ruka coming to the realization that he finally understands Shiori's motives. Or even Juri realizing that she's being like Shiori.

So there you go.

That's a really good point, Mishi and sharn. I think one of the brilliant aspects of SKU is that every character tackles with issues and situations that we can all relate to. We've all felt like we were special at some points, or ordinary and ignored at others. Most of us have had unrequited attraction, and plenty have used manipulation to get what we want. It's difficult to not feel some sort of commonality with each of the characters. Who we relate to most, however, is a difficult question.

After a long time of debating with myself, I've come down to two very distinct and separate personalities: Mikage and Shiori. The former because I often try to understand relationships and human dynamics in either a very mechanical or philosophical way. My deductions on life and its meaning bears resemblance to some process of logic, but the outcome is bordering on psychosis. That's not to say that I'm a raving loony. Just that my outlooks and perspectives, especially related to perceiving the world around me, can be very strange.

Shiori is the darker and more emotional aspect of that. I've spent a long time in people's shadows, which motivates me to be ambitious and perfect my talents. Unlike her, I don't try to leech off the success of others, and I'm not as passive-aggressive. I don't deliberately try to destroy my friends. But that appearance of vulnerability with an undercurrent of sinister understanding is something I relate to.

I guess I'm more someone who appears, acts, and behaves more like Shiori, but my mental processes are more similar to Mikage's.

Utena for the genderfuck girl/boy idealism, Mikage for the autism, and Tatsuya for a person with heart living in a world not quite within their grasp.

I can relate to Utena to a certain degree. When I was younger I was very boyish and really wanted to be a boy. The reason was not due to penis envy. I just wanted to reject my mom's notion that a girl should act like a girl. I didn't like to play with dolls or any girl's games. They were too boring in my opinion. All I wanted to do was run around and acted out scenes my friends and I saw on TV (Saint Seiya was airing on Hong Kong television at that time). I keep up the boyish attire even now, but unlike Utena, my character is not very noble.  Nonetheless, I really admire Utena and people who are like her in real life. As we all know, to be upright and always do the right thing isn't an easy feat in reality.

I hate Akio for being the disrupting factor in Anthy and Utena's developing relationship in the TV series. At the same time, I idolize him for his mastery in the game of manipulation. It's people like him who succeed in the real world. The other alternative is being born into a well connected/wealthy family, and having one's path paved and smoothed out by one's parents. Many people disagree with how I view the world, but I believe what I see and lived through.

Anthy is disliked by a number of people, but I love her character from the start. Yes, the fact that she is so damn gorgeous and mysterous has a lot to do with it~ But I can relate to her forged submissiveness and how she kept her true self hidden. I am also very spiteful...an aspect of myself that I really don't like... Also, I like animals more than people.

Described as a clown by Mikage, Saionji is quite pitiful. He is arrogant when everything goes his way. Even so, he can never shake away that sense of insecurity and inferiority (which is how I always feel). Like him, I am ambitious but always fall short of what I aspire. Just like how I doubt Saionji will ever attain what he desires, the same thing also goes for me. 

Wakaba, she describes herself as just another face in the crowd. Her confession in the elevator and her hate-filled speech on the dueling arena really struck a core with me. It's just so true...

I behave a bit like Juri, if crossed the wrong way I have a tendency to just freeze up and be somewhat unpleasant ---and not because I want to be mean, but because it's second nature. Also, because Juri struggles with her sexuality and being completely "free." I can see that in myself a bit, I struggle with being myself wholeheartedly and I guess that in itself having something to do with not really belonging anywhere.

And then, there's Utena . I mean where do I start? Initally I hated everything about her (ha! much like Juri), her idealism and etc. I thought she was a foolish character, but after re-reading the manga and re-watching the anime, I fell for her because of many things wanting to be a prince, wanting to be there for someone, doing what's right and in the end being yourself. I know, Disney moment.

Last edited by lex (06-01-2009 04:18:09 PM)

I tend to swing between Utena and Anthy, but lately Utena has been winning more and more often.

(my first bump oh wow)

I feel like the people we relate to on this show especially says a lot about who we are or at least how we view ourselves. Undoubtedly there are aspects of us in all characters, but nevertheless there are always those that just sorta... stick out to you. Even if perhaps someone else says "noooo, you're really THIS!" You see something and it makes you uncomfortable how close to you it is. At the same time, it's comforting to know it's there (the moon?!?). It's really personal, which makes this thread really interesting.

Mentally running through the important characters, there are two that stick out especially, and a third who gets an honorable mention.

Miki: This is going to be really embarrassing to explain, isn't it? Well, I'll give it a shot. Like Miki, I used to cling a lot to childhood ideals. I didn't really have a 'Kozue' figure, but the idea that when you were young everything was idyllic and awesome and it's gonna be like this forever, isn't it~ was certainly present. Then it ends, almost suddenly. There is an event you can point to that is marked "end of happy times." And you want to go back terribly, but you can't. It's simply impossible. Nevertheless, the ideal of that 'shining moment' and the aftermath of the 'dark event' carry on.

Like Miki, I am so guilty. Guilt can be a way of expressing control - I could have changed this if I had done that. The truth is that we were both powerless to stop what happened. The event was out of our control, and guilting about it only made us feel worse. The thing that was in our control, our reaction to the event, we handled badly. We shut off from others. Yet, for whatever reason, our guilt is not focused on our reaction to the event, but mostly on some seeming failure to prevent the event from happening. Avoidance of responsibility, perhaps?

This may be a wrong impression, but it appears to me that series-Miki does not talk about his own feelings or life very often. He mentioned his garden stuff to Utena because it was immediately relevant to his little Anthy crush, but he himself doesn't really disperse any information directly. So much of his relationship with Kozue and his parents, for example, has to be pieced together from outside clues, and it doesn't seem like anyone really knows what's going on with Miki. "many handsomeness boy, such fence, very piano, wow" is what people know about Miki, and also "his sister will make sure he never gets laid." But his personal life? Anthy and Utena are the ones who find out the most about him, and that's because he was basically friends with them. He seems to have spoken with Touga before because Touga mentions "that shining thing you talked about," but once again, no specifics. Beyond that, nobody knows much about him and he's defined by his achievements, past and present. I'm very much like that. While I would like to tell my issues to people, experience has led me to act otherwise. I'll use vague wording to express the feeling of something, but rarely will you hear a personal scenario from me, especially with family.

We both have sibling problems. The source of the issues is different - I do not and have never had a twincestuous relationship, thank you very much - but the end result is the same: estrangement from siblings. Not to say that we don't care for our siblings, because clearly he does, as do I. But unlike the idealized sibling relationship where you're friends ~*but better*~ we sort of act coldly to one another. In addition, different expectations certainly contributed to both our sibling issues. I was the act my sibling was supposed to follow. They failed, and now refuse to engage in any activity where I could possibly outshine them - sound familiar? Unlike Mikage, Miki's intellect and talent don't seem to isolate him from anyone other than his sister, so in that sense I relate to that guy. I realize how stuck-up I sound and I apologize deeply - whenever I read a similar post on the internet I always cringe really hard. Believe me, I don't consider myself ~the smartestest~ or ~the most talentedest~, but I cannot deny that some perception that I was "smart" or "talented" contributed to my isolation from the world and from my sibling. Well, to continue my narcissism, I have been told that I am talented at academic matters and music. Yeah, I know, "someone told me I was smart" is the best humblebrag ever, because now the blame is on somebody else. It's still annoying, though, and I apologize for that.

Finally, the most embarrassing part. Yes, I am really repressed, much like Miki. I'm not as much as I used to and I'm more honest with myself now, but I definitely did a lot of mental acrobatics to justify things, much like Miki convinces himself he wants Anthy "for the music" or he wants to win the duel "to free her." That's bullroar, and the 3rd act forces him to confront the true source of his desire to win the duels - he wants to screw her. He's very uncomfortable with that. Would Touga hesitate to ask a girl to play piano? Would Touga recite what he was going to say to the girl so he didn't mess up and seem like a creep? Would Touga have very roundabout ways of trying to get to a girl? No, he most certainly would not! Would Touga pretend he wanted anything other than sex? Nah. Miki would, though. All throughout his little meeting with Anthy in arc 1 where Utena is basically trying to hook them up (that was adorable btw) he's blushing and nervous and stuttering. When Nanami makes her (unintended?) innuendo about whether "it hurt," he turns the deepest shade of red seen on the show (it almost matches the trim on his uniform!) before angrily changing the topic; he is deeply embarrassed to even think that someone else could think about him doing anything remotely sexual. He certainly resents his sister's promiscuity (and because he resents it, she continues doing it - healthy dynamic there) and even she calls him pure in relation to her. His (supposed) purity compared to everyone else is certainly one of his defining values, and I identify with that.

In response to a world that tried to force sex on me at all times, I rejected sexuality. It seemed disgusting, nasty. Where many of my peers were sexually active at what, 12, no remotely dirty activity resulted until I was legally an adult. Nowadays, I don't think sex is disgusting or nasty and I realize that many of my hangups regarding it were defense mechanisms against sexualization against my will. Even today, however, I still have different conceptions of what is ok regarding sex compared to my peers and while intellectually I believe that promiscuous behavior like Kozue's (at an appropriate age ofc) is not wrong, my emotional reaction is very different. While I certainly love my innuendos and actually appreciate conversation concerning sex matters, I do feel embarrassed at anyone imagining me in that manner. As such, when I hear people bag on Miki because "he's just so repressed geez," I feel a bit ... ashamed? Not the best word, but it'll do. I certainly feel judged from beyond the screen, even though whoever wrote that had no idea who I was and had no intention of judging anything beyond a fictional character.

We're both rather innocent, in the literal meaning of the word. We're often unaware of what's going on around us, about what the truly "adult" matters are. I am an adult and to this day I still miss a lot. Our naivete means people can manipulate us easier.

Now to end this essay about my embarrassing identification with this character and move on to someone else people actually like: Utena!

Utena: Childhood rejection of gender roles and expectations - check! Uncomfortable with and afraid of own femininity although also wanting to embrace it - check! Cruelly innocent - check! Believes in ideals long considered impractical and archaic by the world - check! Stubborn as a mule - double check! Younger me definitely would have identified with Utena more and probably not have cared as much for Miki beyond a superficial "cute boy he plays the piano too and look we smart people yay;" it would've been too painful to acknowledge some of the more salient similarities we have. While Utena is often dense beyond belief to me, I do see a lot of myself in her. Perhaps that's why she annoys me at times.

And very tiny section because I actually don't care too much about this character (I am so sorry but she has enough fans already, she doesn't need me):
Ruki: Unrequited love! Cynicism! Carrying on suffering because we've been doing it for so long! Weird martyr complex! Oh, the humanity! Other than that, mmmeh. Pretty superficial analysis, I know, but she's the only one who could justify having her own section out of every other character.

Now you know far too much about me! Hurrah!