Mostly through internet searches.  I think I came to a Satanism page at some point...regardless, it linked a BUNCH of articles at other sites (over half of which were dead, but, yeah...).  However, wikipedia actually summarizes much of what I read.  Thank you, wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

I hope I'm not straying off-topic.  I'm not sure I remember your reference to Job, but I was reading Joseph Campbell's "Myths to Live By" last week and I took down a quote that I adored-- where he mentions the story of Job.  (One of the notes I made, of course, turned into an exploration of Utena which I hope to be able to make into a thread or an essay at some point...I've been doing SO MUCH Utena writing lately. >_< I can't believe I said "Yay, make this forum.")

Anyway, I thought I'd share it, as it may be "bounce-able."

The Greeks, that is to say, are on man's side, both in sympathy and in loyalty; the Hebrews, on the contrary, on God's.  Never would we have heard from a Greek such words as those of the sorely beaten "blameless and upright" Job, addressed to the god who had "destroyed him without cause" and who then came at him in the whirlwind, boasting of his power.

"Behold," pleaded Job, "I am of small account...I know that thou canst do all things...I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes."

Repent! Repent for what?

In contrast, the great contemporary Greek playwright Aeschylus, of about the same fifth-century date of the anonymous author of the Book of Job, puts into the mouth of his Prometheus--who is also being tormented by a god that could "draw Leviathan out with a fishhook, play with him as with a bird, and fill his skin with harpoons"--the following stunning words: "He is a monster...I care less than nothing for Zeus.  Let him do as he likes."

And so say we all today in our hearts, though our tongues may have been taught to babble with Job.

This gets me thinking, especially given the role of "the devil" in the story of Job and my feeling that there is a meaningful comparison to be made between Dios, Akio, and/or Anthy & Atlas and/or Prometheus.

no, *weeps* I was really getting into this discussion and then it came to an end. Sadly I have nothing to add, but this is really satsifying so far. Gio too makes an interesting point about Akio and Ikuhara since I never quite got over the feeling of betrayal when I realised adulthood doesn't ultimately equal maturity and I was always stirred by it when I was watching the series. I think it's interesting that Akio who embodies an immature adult who ultimately keeps the world he inhabits from becoming a better place is also the character who blames the world for making him that way. It reminds me of those cycles where a person will expierence something unpleasant and than act out unpleasantly towards others or another who will then act out unpleasantly towards others, the blame and the responsibilty being lost in the cycle.

Mishi wrote:

skewed_tartan wrote:

I wonder how they managed to miss Miki's little obsession wih his sister though since they got everyone else on the council pegged.

Well, I missed Miki's obsession with his sister too. I'm basically taking all of you on faith about any incesty things that might have happened between the Kaoru twins. 'cause I didn't see it.

I used to be the exact same way on the Kaoru twins, if you look at earlier posts I even asked for an explanation as well, more than once, though I never got one, but then it just clicked with time and yes I'm defintely in that camp now, it's not something you see in the series it's something you see in their character when you take a moment to think about it.

The only English dubs I can watch are Chobits and Rozen Maiden. And possibly a few tohers, but that's it.

Utena in English? Christ. I was ready to show  pencil in my ear...because if I'm going to hurt, I might as well do it to myself. Rachael Lillis was great...Mandy Bonhomme (Juri) and Lisa Ortiz (Shiori) were great as well.

beautifulpanther wrote:

BalamiyaVardihi wrote:

The only English dubs I can watch are Chobits and Rozen Maiden. And possibly a few tohers, but that's it.

Utena in English? Christ. I was ready to show  pencil in my ear...because if I'm going to hurt, I might as well do it to myself. Rachael Lillis was great...Mandy Bonhomme (Juri) and Lisa Ortiz (Shiori) were great as well.

if someone thinks that Utena in english is bad, check out the german version... it's the worstt T_T; I need to check out how to crack the safety code to show you...

Oh well this might do, found it awhile back.

In any case why doesn't someone make a dubbing thread, so many threads I've been in go into discussions about dubbing and I think there should be a thread where we can just rant out our opiniouns on the subject.

Coco Melancholy wrote:

Mishi wrote:

skewed_tartan wrote:

I wonder how they managed to miss Miki's little obsession wih his sister though since they got everyone else on the council pegged.

Well, I missed Miki's obsession with his sister too. I'm basically taking all of you on faith about any incesty things that might have happened between the Kaoru twins. 'cause I didn't see it.

I used to be the exact same way on the Kaoru twins, if you look at earlier posts I even asked for an explanation as well, more than once, though I never got one, but then it just clicked with time and yes I'm defintely in that camp now, it's not something you see in the series it's something you see in their character when you take a moment to think about it.

I'll just have to watch the series again.