In the Rose Garden / Akio, Anthy, and Bindis/Tilaka

Frau Eva · Back to Top

So, me and of course others have looked up this question before, and I think the wider use of internet + my increasing ability to research India from making an Indian character has revealed some new information on bindis. And while Ikuhara more likely just used it as a reference to Demian's Mark of Cain/reference to Sukeban Deka manga/it just looked cool, if we stopped at what Ikuhara most likely did, we wouldn't have half the fun that we do. So let's go all Death of the Author on this bitch. It's what Ikuhara probably wants anyway.

Others--myself included--have searched for this before and seen that bindis are generally worn only on women. Which is mostly true. However, "bindi" are a specific subtype of Indian forehead decoration--often associated with women and mostly just used as an indication of marriage. If we're going to look at all the possibilities, the less-well-known-but-better-word would be "tilak" or "tilaka" for all types of Indian forehead decoration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilaka

http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/cultur … -forehead/

This was the only screenshot on the first page of Google image search that gave clear pictures of both their foreheads. Sorry.

Assuming that the color of Anthy and Akio's tilak is black(and not as an oversimplification for animation purposes, which again, BIG LEAP, I know), this gives us, as far as I can tell, 3 possible symbolic possibilities based on the color and shape of their tilaks:

1.) Anthy and Akio are Sudras--the service class(lololololol I doubt Akio would continue to wear that if this was true)

2.) It's a more informal/less ceremonial tilak of the Sakta/Shaktism sect of Hinduism. Which, since that happens to be the exact sect my character is from, I know a decent amount about it already and holy shit is that interesting. To give an extreme summary, most Hindu sects's base differences is in which deity they think is the ultimate, true form of the divine. Shaktism is the only one that thinks the supreme godhead is a goddess(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktism). Which one exactly differs by subsect(Shakti, Devi, Durga, etc), but either way, action and creation is completely impossible without feminine energy. While masculine energy is important, yes, femnine energy is considered definitely more important and it's the most female-centric surviving religion in the world. The most famous/infamous subsects of Shaktism would be the followers who think Kali is the ultimate godform, and is heavily connected to the widely misunderstood tantrism. I could go on about this particular sect forever, trust me--ask me any further questions about it for this and I'll try to answer it, but I also don't want to babble on unnecessarily. Oh, and hey, Kali worship is very prominent in Southern India, which is exactly whereeeeeeeee------

3.) In Southern India, a black single dot can often indicate a widow. Widows in other parts of India often don't wear anything, as far as I can tell.

Also, the movie tilaks are different. Movie!Anthy's tilak doesn't seem to be consistent with ANY forms of tilak, but it's kind of keyhole-shaped, which is always what I assumed the intended message to be. Movie!Akio's is just a plain red dot, but the color did change. This would be more in line with the Khatriyas(Kings, Warriors, Administrators) if its an indicator of class. The shape stayed the same, so it still looks like an indication of belonging to the Shaktism sect and/or actually being married with a living spouse.

So--thoughts? Comments? Questions? Accusations of Wrongdoing?

Last edited by Frau Eva (10-06-2015 08:34:17 PM)

Decrescent Daytripper · Back to Top

Frau Eva wrote:
Anthy and Akio are Sudras--the service class(lololololol I doubt Akio would continue to wear that if this was true)

He may not have a choice. But, he's got arm bands, too. Maybe he likes flouting that he's low class in a high class position, as long as it's coded and looks good.

Yasha · Back to Top

Hey Frau, I just wanted you to know that I've read through your post a couple of times and this is fantastic information that I had no idea about. Thank you so much for posting it!

The idea of Shaktism being a factor is one that's really intriguing to me. I feel like this has a resonance with Akio referring to Anthy as a goddess in both the series and the manga; that Anthy is a frustrated form of godhood would make a heck of a lot of sense with many moments in the series that portray Akio and Anthy as being not quite human and possibly much older than they seem.

But then, what does that make Akio? I feel like I'd have to get into the mythology to find a parallel.

Astrinde · Back to Top

Perhaps it makes Akio someone who's empowered by the Goddess - which certainly proves true in the end, when Anthy walks off the scene!

Just writing to offer a few more ideas:

When a devotee applies, or receives, the tilak, it's to be done while thinking of the divine and with the intention of receiving a blessing and of awakening divine awareness throughout the day. Seeing that mark, on oneself and others, is a constant reminder of the divinity in everyone....

But if this idea applies to Anthy and Akio, then the tilak becomes a goad - a perpetual reminder of what lies beyond that sealed Gate!

I've also spoken to people who view the bindi/pottu as a beauty mark, something that enhances the pure beauty of a face, so it might be a device to make the siblings seem more beautiful, trustworthy, etc. (I've used it this way in my fanfic, in which Anthy's bindi actually makes the illusion of false!Mamiya more appealing and so encourages Mikage to believe the lie.)

-Astrinde

rhyaniwyn · Back to Top

Yasha wrote:
The idea of Shaktism being a factor is one that's really intriguing to me. I feel like this has a resonance with Akio referring to Anthy as a goddess in both the series and the manga; that Anthy is a frustrated form of godhood would make a heck of a lot of sense with many moments in the series that portray Akio and Anthy as being not quite human and possibly much older than they seem.

But then, what does that make Akio? I feel like I'd have to get into the mythology to find a parallel.

So, you know, just kinda spitballing in my western & fantasy influenced way, but I think I remember something similar coming up once in the mythology thread, the notion that they were gods who were sort of, blocked, stuck partway through apotheosis due to reasons. So it's interesting that a similar idea comes up in a different way...but maybe not that surprising if you consider it's possibly there because it's kind of a ubiquitous motivation of human endeavor/common thread running through religions of advancement, especially toward an ideal or truth or higher plane or enlightenment.

Something that struck me as kind of amusing is, if the ultimate godhood/energy is the feminine, it reminds me of in the movie when Akio says he was only a Prince because Anthy's magic transformed him into one, and in reality he was Lord of the Flies. This is applicable to the series as well, it's just succinctly and poetically put in the movie. This kind of reliance on/hostility toward female power...that although Akio seems to be "in charge", Anthy's really essential to him and he resents it. Then, putting her leaving in sort of religious terms, he's been formally abandoned by god (although really it's probably more like the existing alienation is finally being acknowledged openly). I recall contrasting Akio's destructive/dysfunctional relationship with Anthy to Utena's accepting/nurturing one, and how Utena's pinnacle as Campbellian Hero is her "Meeting with the Goddess" as so dramatically rendered by the hand clasp.

Obviously not directly related to India or Hinduism, just some segues. I remember doing a Buddhism comparison once, but I don't think anyone's done a deep Hinduism comparison.

pesimistamente · Back to Top

Frau Eva wrote:
3.) In Southern India, a black single dot can often indicate a widow. Widows in other parts of India often don't wear anything, as far as I can tell.

I'll go with this one as a personal favorite. Not that Shaktism isn't interesting af, but the change of color of the bindi between the movie and the series is a high light for me. However I think I can manage to merge number 2 and number 3.

While we never know exactly the status of the characters of Utena in matters of life or death (ie. Mikage), as far as they have some sort of agency they are relevant / alive. Stay with me on this one; Dios/Akio ~~(jesus I almost translated it to english since Dios is in Spanish and its so odd)~~ is definitely relevant but through Anthy only. She is the one who pulls out the sword of Dios, she is the one with the super natural powers, she is the one really doing "the dirty work" while manipulating others. The show is more about Anthy than it really is about Dios/Akio. But Anthy's motives and power comes from him, or from the feelings related to him.

While other duellists resist to let go of certain ideas (purity, frienship, love) Anthy may have troubles letting her brother go, which is her ultimate source of power -as with the other characters. Her unresolved feelings can be the main fuel for the story to develop.

I'm not saying Akio is dead ~~I'm not saying he isn't~~ I'm saying she is still mourning him.

I always found confusing how Akio's role in the movie was so irrelevant, almost cartoonish. What if Anthy is no longer mourning him in the movie, as she is older? Also, this also connects with Utena's mourning for her parents. What if they are both accepting to let go of dead loved ones (metaphorically, or physically)? What if Movie!Anthy could save Utena from her pain because she was already over that process?

Option number 2 really makes a highlight on who to focus, but option number 3 opens up a possibility of reinterpretation: what connects Anthy and Utena is the process of grief.

rhyaniwyn · Back to Top

pesimistamente wrote:
I'm not saying Akio is dead, I'm saying she is still mourning him.

I always found confusing how Akio's role in the movie was so irrelevant, almost cartoonish. What if Anthy is no longer mourning him in the movie, as she is older?

What if Movie!Anthy could save Utena from her pain because she was already over that process?

I like that.

pesimistamente wrote:
... what connects Anthy and Utena is the process of grief.

I've often thought this could be the case, although not typically grief in terms of dealing with the death of a loved one, but in dealing with the death of...an illusion.

Utena's "why does everyone go on living knowing they'll end up dying anyway?" They both were brought to the point of giving up, only Anthy...either couldn't or didn't, even though for her living meant incredible pain.

Utena saw that and it inspired her to be strong.

I really like the idea of widowhood as a metaphor, not necessarily for my little pet notions particularly, but for something.

#1 | Back to Top10-06-2015 08:32:25 PM

Akio, Anthy, and Bindis/Tilaka

#2 | Back to Top10-07-2015 12:45:31 AM

Re: Akio, Anthy, and Bindis/Tilaka

Frau Eva wrote:

#3 | Back to Top10-19-2015 03:40:18 AM

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#4 | Back to Top01-27-2016 11:54:17 AM

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Yasha wrote:

#6 | Back to Top02-05-2016 08:45:19 PM

Re: Akio, Anthy, and Bindis/Tilaka

Frau Eva wrote:

#7 | Back to Top02-11-2016 11:45:07 PM

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pesimistamente wrote:

pesimistamente wrote:

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