I remember an old quote which was

DIVIDE AND CONQUER

which I believe that would be what Akio would pull in his efforts to weaken some of Anthy's hold which she has over him and Touga while ambitious, is in comparison to Anthy, a mere patsy.

As a response, we see Anthy start to do things which Akio didn’t approve of in later episodes with Utena as the means she uses to achieve this.

(I cannot remember what events they were at the moment but I’m sure there are plenty of people in our forum who can ‘connect the dots’ as it were.)

Giovanna wrote:

I always took that look to be Anthy annoyed at Touga's being so critical of the magic tricks no one else has really bothered to figure out.

I think that expression shows she's definitely annoyed at Touga. By "magic tricks" do you mean the rules of the arena? Touga certainly screwed with those. Re-watching the scene, Utena actually drops her guard even with Nanami charging her because Utena believes the duel is over, no more reason to fight. She's not totally comitted to duelling at all costs. That's where Touga gets her in the next episode.

Giovanna wrote:

She sees him on his way to winning, but I think even now, she realizes she doesn't feel like being anyone else's bride. Especially Touga's.

Agreed. I'm sure she knows he's pulled his little Nanami stunt successfully. That she's against his plan is also held up by her actions in the next episode when she "shores up" Utena's resolve by telling her that she's ready to make friends. She's got it good with Utena, maybe she's figured that out by this time.

Giovanna wrote:

I almost want to suggest she'd prefer being Saionji's, given that bad attention is better than none, and she'd rather be the beat up center of a person's universe than a fly on the wall, even if it keeps the victor off her back.
Then again, Anthy in her own fashion has that fun with Saionji, so I don't know what she's complaining about.

Hmm, dare I say you might be mapping on Anthy here? I know YOU wouldn't be complaining.

Giovanna wrote:

Which, now that I think of it...does Anthy ever get annoyed that Akio's a gigantic attention whore? She has to play subservient symbol of power and he gets to pull his pants down and wave his business all over the school. Hah! Maybe that's her problem, she's annoyed she's going to have to play passive airhead (boring role) while Akio gets to have a grand old time for himself with Touga.

"wave his business"

Hey, if she's bored, she could've seduced Utena. None of us would mind.

Giovanna wrote:

Awwww, give me some credit. Anthy did have more fun with Saionji than Touga, because she enjoyed pestering the unholy hell out of the poor guy. Touga she basically leaves alone, and he leaves her alone. Anthy has a mean streak, actually a meaner streak than her brother, I'd say, and she took great pleasure in taking it out on Saionji. I don't mean to excuse his behavior, but he doesn't slap her around for no reason.

It's definately fun watching Anthy push every single button to piss Saionji off, I didn't realise at first at just how good she is at striking people right in their weak points at the oppertune moment. (Very Captain Jack there, heheh...) Early on she proves that that part about the Rose Bride having to obey who she's enganged to is a load of rubbish.

That's why I think she probably didn't enjoy being with Touga as much; there's not many points there to stab at. All you can do is lead him along and think he's gaining power like Akio did.

Syuria wrote:

That's why I think she probably didn't enjoy being with Touga as much; there's not many points there to stab at. All you can do is lead him along and think he's gaining power like Akio did.

That sounds right to me. Even though she 'likes' Utena, she messes with her a lot. Especially in the first arc, where she's most inclined to dislike Utena's "princely behavior."

Giovanna wrote:

I wonder if it's not also a bit of 'Oh that one belongs to Akio'. They're both sadistic, but they seem to divide the school population between each other, with very little overlap. Nanami and Saionji are Anthy's punching bags. She also screws quite openly with poor Kanae. Akio seems far more interested in Touga and Utena, and Kanae's dear mother. It's worth noting that the shit hits the fan when Akio and Anthy seem to disagree on who Utena belongs to.

Love that bit of insight there. I think you hit the situation dead on. Utena is the wishbone. Ha!

Giovanna wrote:

The exchange diary is just bad, yes. (I had one! With a boy, no less. But I was in 6th grade. We used to draw maps of Europe in it and discuss which countries needed to fall first if you were attempting to take over the world.)

That's pretty adorable, you future dictators, you.

Giovanna wrote:

Still, if you remove the silly diary, and the way he's being ruthlessly ignored, and just look at what he's saying, it's a nice big chunk of that insight I'm always yammering about Saionji having. Naturally he's completely clueless about the situation applied to him. (Anthy's love for him is hidden. Yeeep. Poor guy.) However, he hits the nail square on the head talking about the situation that doesn't involve him. It comes full circle when you consider that same idea, of love despite cruelty, has no doubt applied to Anthy before. Just not with Saionji.

I was just watching the last few episodes and I ADORE Saionji in those. He's funny, he's caring, he's supportive and he's right most of the time. He and Nanami seem to be in good places there at the end.

Giovanna wrote:

I wonder about that. Why didn't she pester Touga? Perhaps she realized the situation was utterly temporary and didn't bother with it?

I'm not sure about that. Anthy expects Utena to lose the rematch against Touga, so at the least she doesn't see herself reuniting with Utena any time soon. (Weirdly, Chu Chu does seem to expect it, judging from the way he/it hordes those crackers in the hobo-sack.) I think it may have more to do with whether Anthy believes Touga deserves to be messed with. Saionji and Nanami treat her badly in such a way that Anthy can view herself as the victim and be justifed in screwing with them. And Utena's blindness, which incorporates her desires for Anthy into being Anthy's actual desires, leaves her open for veiled attacks as well.

But Touga as the engaged does the opposite of Utena and Saionji, treating Anthy as the object she's portraying herself to be. In effect, giving her what it appears she wants based on her 'normal' behavior. As horrible as his scenario for Anthy as his bride may sound, keeping her locked up in her rose garden cage, Touga isn't saying it to be cruel to her. He really thinks that's what's best for Anthy, similar to Akio saying Anthy will remain the Rose Bride for eternity (when 'persuading' Utena to be his princess,) but without the knowledge to make it an ironic statement. Since that's how Anthy has been presenting herself up until now, she wouldn't necessarily judge Touga harshly for giving it to her.

For Anthy, being presented with the life she pretends she wants is likely what causes her to decide it's not what she desires. She doesn't value what she had with Utena until it's gone. Whether or not Anthy is aware that Utena's rematch with Touga is the duel of Self, (or if she cares?) Anthy doesn't get involved in it until Utena puts her own life in jeapordy, a la Dios.

Syuria wrote:

Akio ignores Saionji for most of the series, which is suprising because I could imagine him having quite a lot of fun with that sexually-frustrated young man with a massive anger problem.

My god, would I love to have seen that. I feel kinda bad willing my adorable Saionji into such a dangerous position but come on, that's just ridiculously hot.

That said, there's more than Anthy in play there, I think. Saionji is first and foremost Touga's toy. It's not necessary for Akio to deal directly with him, he can dump the manipulative work on his subordinate. At the cost of getting access to Saionji himself, but...I wonder how Touga would have felt about Akio seducing Saionji? Could it possibly, maybe have bothered him, just a little? Not enough to act against his boss, but enough to make things a little less convenient for Akio? Akio is a whore and lets sex factor into his schemes on purpose, but not once does he have sex with someone when it would be disadvantageous of him to do so.

Syuria wrote:

And poor Saionji. No one does take him seriously! (Though Chu Chu!Saionji is adorable, heheh!) Even though he flat out states things, like in the first episode that the castle is just an illusion, no one pays a blind bit of notice to him...

What's sad is I believe he flat out contradicts this later on. Saionji's insight comes when no one's paying attention. Including him. If you pointed out his insights, he wouldn't believe you, simply because his ego is so shot to hell.

Giovanna wrote:

That said, there's more than Anthy in play there, I think. Saionji is first and foremost Touga's toy. It's not necessary for Akio to deal directly with him, he can dump the manipulative work on his subordinate. At the cost of getting access to Saionji himself, but...I wonder how Touga would have felt about Akio seducing Saionji? Could it possibly, maybe have bothered him, just a little? Not enough to act against his boss, but enough to make things a little less convenient for Akio? Akio is a whore and lets sex factor into his schemes on purpose, but not once does he have sex with someone when it would be disadvantageous of him to do so.

Aaah, I never thought of it that way! I would imagine Touga would be slightly put out by Akio dragging another guy into their little games, as the best way for Akio to get Touga to do what he wants is for him to think he's in the most powerful position, and dragging Saionji in would definately make him think he was no longer Akio's right hand man. By the time Saionji is joining in on the photo sessions, Akio probably thinks the games are all going his way and he really has no more need for Touga.

I suppose how he doesn't seduce Saionji is very similar to how it's very unlikely he slept with Wakaba, since that would've done him to favours with getting to Utena. Clearly he's an sex addict on a epic scale, but he knows when to keep the beast in its cage, so to speak.

Dani wrote:

Hmm, yes, that could explain the look she gets on her face in the scene in the birdcage where Touga tells her that's where she belongs. She had been talking about the lunch with Wakaba/Utena and her wish to cook. But his reminder that she shouldn't want that as the Rose Bride jolts her, it seems. Despite her intended facade, living with Utena has already started to change her. And his comments make her realize that.

ShatteredMirror wrote:

Anthy's keeping Utena's handkerchief and later imagining them having tea is the first time that I can recall really seeing Anthy express some sort of emotion that she wasn't using to manipulate a situation to her advantage.

Heheh, that's why I love that episode so much! It's the first time Anthy really stops acting just as Akio's pawn and a vindictive cow, and starts to show that she wants to be more than just the Rose Bride. It's kinda sweet to see how Utena's started to change her view on things, and I kinda see it as the start of her passive-agressive defiance of Akio later in the series.