Something that amused me:  In episode 32, when Nanami is talking to Miki in the music room, I'm pretty sure that Miki is "playing" John Cage's 4'33".  The music is all rests, and Miki doesn't play a thing during the entire scene.  He does use his stopwatch, but that's something that performers frequently do to make sure they hit 4 minutes 33 seconds exactly, and the way he sat at the piano before the stopwatch (straight back, hands resting on thighs) is characteristic of a pianist waiting out a tacet. 

Pretty unrelated to the rest of the show, but it made me chuckle a bit >.>

Anthy says "sorry, I closed my eyes" after she took a picture with Utena and Akio. Presumably they retook the picture and that's the one we see at the very end (with Anthy and Utena holding hands.) They weren't holding hands in the one we saw on screen, Utena had her arms behind her back.

Last edited by HonorableShadow (03-28-2012 08:42:01 PM)

...is her new best friend at the very end.

Gooooooooood Eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now if only I can find actual proof to support my personal canon that Mrs. Ohtori is the red convertible with the "Ohtori" plate that Akio had been sexually riding for all those final episodes, then my fan-gasm can be complete

Oh, Honey Bear, I remember that too; it happened around the Akio/Anthy power struggle time period right before the Revolution.

Makes me wonder though; is Anthy trying to protect Utena? Or is she being posessive over Ako?

By Anthy's actions in the next couple eps, where she begged Utena to leave post suicide attempt, and her betrayal of Utena at the Duel, I think it is BOTH.

satyreyes wrote:

The word you're hearing is "otori," with a short O.  To Japanese ears, that's going to sound rather different from "ohtori," with a long O.  English doesn't really have a vowel length distinction, so any comparison is ill-fated, but you might compare it to the difference between words like "era" and "error" in American English -- they sound similar, but anyone who's paying attention can hear the difference.

Still, they do sound similar, and the "otori" meaning is obviously pretty awesome, so hey, if you like it, run with it! 

Saitou, Enokido, and Ikuhara are fond of puns, though (and at least two of them are guilty of really stretching to get a pun). It seems unlikely that one that big would sneak by without them jumping on it, even if it weren't planned afore.

The significance of Utena's outfit on her second date with Akio.



This is quite unusual for Utena. It's far more feminine and modern than her typical tomboyish and ritualistically traditional get-ups. And yet, it's not the girlish princess gown that Touga attempted to dress her up in. She wears it in one of the series' most ambiguous moments (in my eyes, anyway). Utena may have given her virginity to Akio before, but she lost her true innocence to Anthy's betrayal (at least the most obvious symbol thereof at the point). Rather oddly, her immediate reaction is to ask Akio out on another date. As noted before, the dress is new, but there is something familiar about the red, short skirt, and plunging neckline.



This time around, the usually preyed-upon Utena's lack of doe-eyed naivete disconcerts Akio. Indeed, he notes her outfit directly, and there is something in the parallel that disturbs him.

Utena:  That was fun. Thanks for today.
Akio:  You really aren't wearing your ring, are you?
Akio:  Why?
Utena:  I was thinking it maybe didn't suit me.
Akio:  Your clothing suits you quite well.
Akio:  Shall I give you a ring that suits your clothing better? (I can't help but to think of Anthy's gold bracelet, quite clearly symbolizing a chain.)
(Here he advances upon her, but is rejected.)
Utena:  I wonder if Himemiya's asleep already.
Akio:  Tonight, you...
Utena:  What is it?
Akio:  Tonight, you somehow seem very feminine.
Utena:  Well, I am a girl.

Thrown off course, he divulges probably the most honest thing he said to her in the show. That, in reality, he doesn't care for the stars at all. They are only balls of gas that people project their fantasies on. Their only power is the sway they hold upon others. It's in this moment that we see an interaction between reflects the rare moments of authenticity he displays with Anthy. He's hurt, and attempting to hurt her the best way he knows how: stomping on every deceptive moment that Utena had previously treasured. Which is foolish, as his endgame requires her willingness to play along with his princely fantasy. In other words, he's frustrated, making a mistake, and pissed.

Her outfit here represents a turning point: the little girl victim is growing up, and just like the passive-aggressively infuriating Anthy, she might be beyond his control. She might be able to fight back. Finally, she can exert sexual control over him, extending a perceived invitation and then ignoring his charms. In his view, her dress might as well be the Rose Bride's, and her behavior troubles him. After all, in his previous confidence, he might never have thought to plot a back-up plan with Anthy. But I am fully convinced this is the moment where he figured, "Oh shit. Time to get Sis to shiv a bitch."

But while her outfit mirrors Anthy's in some ways, it is distinctly her own. True, the style is feminine, but the red-and-black color scheme is her signature.



This outfit is not a deviation from Utena's personality. It's an evolution. And while Anthy and Akio both think they have her pegged at this point, it quickly becomes clear that much of their view is presumption.

God, I gotta stop re-watching.

Last edited by Katzenklavier (01-10-2013 03:47:44 AM)

I agree. That's pretty interesting. I'm never quite sure what to read into Akio's actions/words (besides "manipulating") so it's helpful to see how other people analyze them.

Huh, for some reason I thought the other dress she wore with Akio had blue stripes, but it seems it's still red.


No idea if that has much significance though.

Yasha wrote:

Oh, please don't. You always have such great insights

Thank you! I'm seriously honored to contribute any new tidbits to such a well-developed base of analysis and information. Which, of course, indicates the mental power of the collective fanbase.

Lurv wrote:

Huh, for some reason I thought the other dress she wore with Akio had blue stripes, but it seems it's still red...No idea if that has much significance though. emot-tongue

I think that it absolutely does. Her dress is mostly white, and throughout the episode, it becomes her symbolic color. This is very unusual. Though her dueling rose is also white (and I have to wonder if she had any say in the matter), she is seldom ever seen wearing it. Instead, the signature she obviously prefers is black. The fact that she is wearing here, then, indicates its importance.



This is the one episode where the viewer is literally put into Akio's head, seeing Utena from his POV. Thus, her appearance as much a reflection of how he sees her and their relationship as her own wardrobe choice. Her dress is skimpier and more feminine than her usual fare. However, it's quite appropriate for a summer day at the circus, innocent enough. But just as the white is broken by red streaks, their connection had everything to with wholesome appearances barely concealing darker intentions.

Of course Akio sees her in the color of purity. Just as his version of Anthy is always a looming dark witch, both cold and sensual, Utena is similarly rendered as an inhuman beauty. But she's the opposite archetype: the blushing virgin and the hapless victim of his corruption. The sex scene is entirely him looking down at her, watching, interspersed with him relishing in his own eval.



"Fuck you, boundaries! No one says I don't go there! I go there, bang its mother, and leave her juice stains all over its couch! Fuck, I'm awesome!"

Let us not forget. During the first date, she was a victim of Akio's scheming. In the second, she's the initiator and calling the shots. :cool:

Though the outfit for each date is similar in that they are both "girly", each indicates a different power dynamic. The first is Utena dressing, acting, and behaving very much how Akio wishes her to. The second shows her growth, agency, and the evolution of her character. Her innocence is ruptured and she is now neither unsullied prince or ingenue. Instead, she is maturing into a woman, sadder but wiser and stronger than ever. As said before, the outfit she chooses is new but very much her style.

Pinchi wrote:

I knew I watched to much SKU when I noticed that in episode 3, just after Utena wakes up and Anthy enters the room, the image goes to a bouquet of flowers in the room:

I just notice that most of those flowers are red, pink and yellow (could they represent Touga, Utena and Nanami, the principal characters in this episode?). Also, there are two tiny, white rosebuds. We know that white roses represent the prince. Could these roses represent Utena (someone who wants to be a prince) and Touga (someone who is mistaken for a prince) perhaps?

Ok, maybe I'm just rambling and seeing symbolism where it doesn't exists

Very good eye.

When we're talking about anything to do with the roses, it's a safe bet that there's always some symbolism attached. But the way you put it... hmm. I'm beginning to wonder if there's some sort of psychoanalysis behind the personalities of each student council member? If each one represented a Freudian aspect/element that adds up to an entire person... Touga: charisma/charm/cunning, Juri: nobility/integrity, Nanami: immaturity/impetuousness, Miki: innocence/idealism, add them all together and you get one single personality.

Am I making sense, no sense, or has all of this been discussed before?

The tree that appears in the prince story...



...is exactly the same one that is seen when Anthy leaves Ohtori (in the following image the tree is slightly moved to the right, but I assure you is exactly the same one)




... And after writing this, I realized that I really should stop rewatching for a while

Last edited by Pinchi (02-22-2013 03:13:07 PM)

Lurv wrote:

Pinchi wrote:

The tree that appears in the prince story...

...is exactly the same one that is seen when Anthy leaves Ohtori (in the following image the tree is slightly moved to the right, but I assure you is exactly the same one)

Definitely not the first reused thing in the series, but that's kind of neat. I guess it gives it a sort of "book ends"-beginning/ending.

I agree that they just decided to reuse the image, but still it makes me wonder. I think the reason that the credits showed such barren, desolated backgrounds was that the real world is not full of roses and sunny days. That sometimes reality can be hard.

However, after this little discovery I begin to wonder if this ending just leads to another cycle. Maybe Anthy is repeating her story over again, replacing Dios for Utena... that thought depresses me a little . Then I guess I'm overanalizing this too much. If my thought above makes any sense, I'm sure that there are stronger arguments in the series than just this image to prove it.

I like your idea of a sort of "end of the tale". I think I'll stick with that one

Lurv wrote:

Pinchi wrote:

The tree that appears in the prince story...

...is exactly the same one that is seen when Anthy leaves Ohtori (in the following image the tree is slightly moved to the right, but I assure you is exactly the same one)

Definitely not the first reused thing in the series, but that's kind of neat. I guess it gives it a sort of "book ends"-beginning/ending.

Ikuhara has talked before about enjoying the reuse part of animation practices, comparing it (as I remember) to mantras and ritual. (As opposed to Hideaki Anno or Shoji Kawamori, who've expressed serious distaste for that business necessity.)

A symbol can borrow meaning from external sources, but its in-story strength and implications usually have to come from reiteration, from reuse.

Anyhow, I do think that, as she enters the really real world, Anthy is as naive as Utena pretends she isn't for the bulk of SKU. Anthy's been in Ohtori for a long time, hiding and not growing and stuff. The world out there, it's going to be a major adjustment in ways she's unlikely to even be aware of.