This is a static copy of In the Rose Garden, which existed as the center of the western Utena fandom for years. Enjoy. :)

#76 | Back to Top10-29-2006 04:06:23 AM

Etrangere
Rose Smilee
From: Paris
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 134
Website

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

I've just shown the Utena movie to a friend yesterday, and one of his reaction (beyond loving) was to say Shiori WAS Utena, or that they were two aspects of the same person.
His reasonment : both Utena and Shiori are the only ones able to see Touga, and seems to have been dating Touga before he died.

Thoughts?


Yes. You shouldn't be suspicious of Anthy. Her big brother is your watching. There is no war in Ba Sing Se. ~ Dalbun

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#77 | Back to Top10-29-2006 10:42:10 AM

Joku_Krypfto
Saionji Slapper
From: Finland
Registered: 10-27-2006
Posts: 21

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Etrangere wrote:

I've just shown the Utena movie to a friend yesterday, and one of his reaction (beyond loving) was to say Shiori WAS Utena, or that they were two aspects of the same person.
His reasonment : both Utena and Shiori are the only ones able to see Touga, and seems to have been dating Touga before he died.

Thoughts?

Well, I don't see how their both dating Touga would prove anything - this is Touga who we're talking about, after all emot-tongue

On a more serious note: like so many other wonderful crackpot SKU theories, it works brilliantly when applied to some parts, yet kinda fails when applied to others. For example, how does Shiori's car-crash work into the whole thingamabob? Also, I can't recall this one too accurately, but as far as I can remember, Utena didn't seem to have any special knowledge on Juri.

Last edited by Joku_Krypfto (10-29-2006 10:44:41 AM)


Originality is nothing.
Hypertextuality is everything.
Obey your hypertextuality.
☞ MOKUSHIKUSHIMOSHIMOKUKUMOSHIMOSHIKUSHIKUMO ☜

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#78 | Back to Top10-29-2006 11:11:12 AM

Etrangere
Rose Smilee
From: Paris
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 134
Website

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Joku_Krypfto wrote:

This is Touga who we're talking about, after all emot-tongue

That Touga is hardly the same one :p

For example, how does Shiori's car-crash work into the whole thingamabob?

Shiori, like Utena, transforms into a car - they have the same power because they're the same person.

But the "Utena" part of her personnality wins and grows up while the more petty, childish feelings that Shiori embodies crash.

Utena didn't seem to have any special knowledge on Juri.

No, she didn't.


Yes. You shouldn't be suspicious of Anthy. Her big brother is your watching. There is no war in Ba Sing Se. ~ Dalbun

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#79 | Back to Top10-29-2006 11:29:54 AM

Razara
Marionette Mistress
From: Wuzzy Happy Akio Town (What?)
Registered: 10-17-2006
Posts: 4694

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Etrangere wrote:

I've just shown the Utena movie to a friend yesterday, and one of his reaction (beyond loving) was to say Shiori WAS Utena, or that they were two aspects of the same person.
His reasonment : both Utena and Shiori are the only ones able to see Touga, and seems to have been dating Touga before he died.

Thoughts?

Actually, I recall making the same comparison once. Both Shiori and Utena were in love with Touga when he died. Shiori tells Touga about how she blames Juri for his death, and Utena accusses Anthy of being the reason why Touga started acting strangely. Shiori finds out about the picture inside of Juri's locket, revealing her secret, and Utena sees the naked picture of Anthy, and then Anthy reviels her secret to Utena. Also, both of them turn into cars. This all could just be a coincidence, though.

Has anyone else noticed something interesting about the Shadow girls?

E-Ko: "I've got a big scoop! There's a mondo scandalous painting in the back of the headmasters room. This is controversy!"

F-Ko: "Oh, but I've obtained an even more controversial videotape! Now, this is a very scandalatious tape."

In the previous scene, Utena saw the painting, whereas Anthy had witnessed it first hand, and told Utena about it. At the end of the movie, E-ko is wearing a nametag that says "Tenjou Utena," and F-Ko is wearing a nametag that says, "Himemiya Anthy." And the last time the shadow girls spoke, F-Ko was dumped by her boyfriend for drawing on her boyfriends back while he was napping, just as Shiori did with Touga. And Shiori is the one who obtains that tape later on.


Are there any interpretations of the duel song Shura - Nikutai Seiza Seiun?

The song seems to describe the death of a star, or rather, the sun. Everything revolves around the sun, just as everything revolves around the prince, and so the beginning of the song describes the death of a star. "Blown to wild darkness, to the limits of the empty sky," the world is enclosed in darkness with the loss of the sun/prince. The second verse, "Shura, now ancient, the gaze fixed on the Earth's movement," refers to the Castle of Eternity. The fading of a firefly in the hugh refers to the fading of a star, or the prince.

"Shura, now transforming, every star rising to glory and power." This relates to the rebirth of the prince. The stars, or duelists, rising to glory and power have the chance to attain eternity, miracles, and shining things. Perhaps the most interesting line, and the one that got me thinking about this song in the first place, is, "Shura becomes the living stars, the stars become their source. Shura, cradling countless eras to that mystic star, the core of power - corona." The prince becomes Utena, giving her the power power of Dios. A corona is the light surrounding the sun, which makes me think of how Dios' image surrounds her.

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#80 | Back to Top10-29-2006 01:31:44 PM

Rebel Prince
Mikage Mistruster
Registered: 10-24-2006
Posts: 61

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

The movie is very lovely, but I'm selfish and wanted to see my favorite characters in the spotlight, and none of them were emot-tongue Still, very pretty!

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#81 | Back to Top10-29-2006 07:05:53 PM

brian
Atlantean Singer
Registered: 10-22-2006
Posts: 589

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Here is an indirect link to a very well thought-out theory of someone on IMDB. I would like to just copy the whole thing onto this forum but am not sure about the ethics of it. The theory works only for the movie I think.
Go to:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243558/usercomments
Then scroll to the comment called: Here's a theory for ya.

I hasten to add that this is not a theory I agree with but it is very interesting. One thing I like about it is that it removes the villain's moustaches painted on both Anthy and Shiori.

Last edited by brian (10-29-2006 07:09:54 PM)

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#82 | Back to Top10-29-2006 10:49:14 PM

Romanticide
Cow Bellhop
From: Mazatlan
Registered: 10-18-2006
Posts: 447

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

I was thinking about the scene that Touga drowns to save Jury(?) at the same time I was talking to a friend about how you can't let you get hurt for helping others even if you think is the right thing to do. And something just clicked in my mind.
The girl fell to the water, she was drowning but... if she didn't knew how to swim why does she was on a boat in the middle of a lake without adult supervision? Sound to me like a silly thing to do.
But what if you think of that scene less literally, she wasn't in a lake of water but on a situation. The boat was her control of the situation and she fell, meaning she lost control of her position in that situation and she was drowning in despair because she didn't knew what to do, not in water.
Touga saw her in trouble and decided to help her getting out of it even if he wasn't exactly the person for the job, but there wasn't anybody near to help her(or nobody else to care) Utena saying "you will die" knew that if Touga got involved couldn't probably save the situation and worse get hurt.
So Touga saved the girl... at the cost of his own well being. Doesn't sound like sometime people do all the time? Get into big troubles or try to help people out of big troubles and end really hurt at the end?

On another view the lake could be what people expect of you. Jury was drowning because the expectations were too much for her. (Not being able to swim could represent her inability to the situation she was expected.) Utena didn't enter the lake because it wasn't expected of her and she knew the risks of it. Touga probably knew the risk but as a prince and a man it was expected to him to get into the trouble and save the girl, at the end Touga got killed by the expectations.

Sorry if it sounds a little weird, I tried to explain myself the best I could emot-gonk


http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1390/firmautenaji0.jpg

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#83 | Back to Top10-29-2006 11:41:39 PM

Imaginary Bad Bug
Revolutionary
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 2171
Website

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Romanticide's post just made me remember the 'shoe in the water' scene change device used in the movie... twice, I think?

I've always found that a fascinating use of foreshadowing for Utena's talk with Touga in the elevator and the flashbacks that go with it.  Maybe not foreshadowing per se, but some sort of hint that the events taking place around that scene change relate to the eventual talk in the elevator.

I'd attempt to try and pick it apart further, but I am hardly awake right now (forming complete sentences and typing is a challenge right now, hehe), and it's been a while since I've watched the movie.

But for now... must... sleep!


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_HERdW38xV_c/S5xZ2QVrIwI/AAAAAAAAApg/uNpckSbLgUw/s800/utenaban.jpg

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#84 | Back to Top10-30-2006 09:07:50 AM

ZSPACE
Touga Topper
Registered: 10-16-2006
Posts: 57

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

Ivy-chan wrote:

Actually, if we want to get technical, Shiori is a bitch and so is Anthy. They can be cruel, ruthless, unlikable people who would hurt other people with no remorse AND have likable and sympathetic qualities. Who is 'worse' than who is open for debate.

It is time to start a ne thread. Who is more cruel, Anthy or Shiori. Thankx.

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#85 | Back to Top12-23-2009 08:16:33 AM

sharnii
Pharaoh of Phanstuff
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: 08-10-2008
Posts: 2416
Website

Re: The Movie: Get your crack here!

I've gotta admit I had a bad moment showing my girlfriend of the time the Utena movie - she actually went out and bought it (because somebody raves about Utena like an insane person school-devil) and insisted we watch it.

I was like...DAMN, if she watches this first, she'll never ever agree to watch the anime. I think my concerns were legitimate...

Her reactions to it were pretty much WTF which I'm sure we can all understand. But luckily she did watch the anime. However we broke up at the beginning of the Akio arc (hey, it takes a long time to watch emot-rofl ). And now I feel really bad for her that she'll probably never see what I consider to be the best, most gripping bits (since she didn't really become a fan from watching it).

I'm telling you (no lie) in our amicable breakup I told her she just had to keep watching Utena. That it would be such a shame if she never saw the ending. emot-redface And I meant every word!

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