Giovanna wrote:

Hmmm. While I agree it's kinda stretching it, perhaps people see it that way because she's so pointlessly cruel. Touga's a jerk, but he's fueled by a desire to obtain something. Akio is on thinner ice there, if you delve deep enough into his motives for doing, well, anything at all, but on the surface, he has reasons for his behavior as well. Why is Shiori such a bitch? Akio and Touga use their heartlessness to get things they want, but Shiori doesn't stand to profit at all from the things she does.

I guess it just comes down to individual feelings. I've certainly heard people justify Touga and Akio being above Shiori by saying "Well, at least they had reasons and goals!" I really don't see why them having a purpose in their hurting people puts them above Shiori, but that's just me, I think that all three of them are on extremely shaky moral ground. I guess I've always had the feeling that it's cool to like Touga and Akio because they always look so damn good while performing their machinations. Like the foul ideal if you will. Shiori on the other hand serves as a rather disturbing mirror. People are put off by her so much because she lacks the self-confience and self-esteem of the men, and her feelings of being worthless and pathetic show on the surface. People want to be Touga and Akio but deep down they know that they've felt like Shiori at some point and they don't like being reminded of it. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I'm a little more sympathetic to Shiori than to the men because I know her pain, I've met people like her before, wheras with Touga and Akio what few times they show pain or emotion I have a hard time buying it.

Yasha wrote:

I dislike the kisses.

That's right, you heard me. I don't like Anthy and Utena kissing. It makes their relationship into an ovary-fueled lustfest. Actually, I don't mean that, I just wanted to say 'ovary-fueled lustfest'. It makes their relationship so self-explanatory. You can put it down to love. It was far more interesting in the series when you didn't really know what to think about it; I thought it was a bit... off not to keep up the ambiguity. It's not like you couldn't have done that in the movie-- just leave the nudity, the weirdness, the dancing, even the bedroom scene sans zipper noise, and take out the kisses

I kind of agree here. (Although I did think it was pretty.. but at the same time, kind of creepy with how similar their faces were.. XD; ) I prefer the mysterious nature of Utena and Anthy's relationship in the series much more. I've heard that the reason (or one of the reasons) why they made the movie was because fans wanted Utena and Anthy's relationship to be more sexual and..obvious.

Also, is anyone else creeped out with how similar Uena and Anthy's bodies look? D: It does give a nice "unity" effect when they're nude together, but.. wow.

Last edited by SleepDebtFairy (10-17-2006 09:31:18 PM)

Yasha wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Also, is anyone else creeped out with how similar Uena and Anthy's bodies look? D: It does give a nice "unity" effect when they're nude together, but.. wow.

You know, I always wrote it off to the standard girl type body they would have used for any girl in the movie. I wonder if it was more?

From the way their bodies were positioned together with such symmetry, I always thought they were going for a kind of balanced, unified look. :3 But it does look like all the girls have the same bodies sometimes. Except Utena is taller in the series, at least.

Giovanna wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

From the way their bodies were positioned together with such symmetry, I always thought they were going for a kind of balanced, unified look. :3 But it does look like all the girls have the same bodies sometimes. Except Utena is taller in the series, at least.

Yeah, I think they just have a kind of character template that only varies by height. Because really, Utena should have been far more muscular than any other female character. I also always imagine her with smaller breasts, but that's because it's so often you see athletic girls plagued in that way. I did find it funny that on top of all the hair (well the character design does show Utena hides the hair), in the movie she suddenly goes from totally flat-chested boyish to having at least a C cup.

I definitely agree. Utena seems like she should be more muscular and smaller-breasted. But all the girls have default boobies. (Maybe when Anthy kissed Utena and Utena took the sword of Dios, her boobs grew too. Oh wait, they showed them before that. Damn.)

Tamago wrote:

ZSPACE wrote:

I would have to completely disagree with you. It is the movie that first got me into Utena ( i saw the movie before the series) and I didnt confuse me. I believe the movie a combination of a retelling and a telling of after what happened in the series. But the movie is on crack like me.

In my case, it was only because I read up on the essays and other things concerning the Utena series beforehand that allowed me to want to see the Utena TV series even after I saw the movie first, but most people would agree that the movie becomes a bit easier to digest if you have seen the TV series as well.

If you want read some incredible essays on Utena go to nemurokinenkan.net

ZSPACE wrote:

If you want read some incredible essays on Utena go to nemurokinenkan.net

I see yaoi. I also see something to read at work.

Alright. When Anthy told Utena about her secret, we see that huge hole the middle of her chest. I know the obvious statement is that is just where the sword of Dios comes from ,but c'mon we did not see that hole in the series. So
WTF is that about?

I thought that the hole was where Akio stabbed her, because when we actually see said scandelous tape and Akio goes to stab her, we see Anthy's sillouette and the hole is formed then. I always figured that it was a metaphor for him taking out her heart, her losing the ability to love, and then the fact that Utena can pull the Sword of Dios from her wound shows that Utena can restore it perhaps?

ZSPACE wrote:

Alright. When Anthy told Utena about her secret, we see that huge hole the middle of her chest. I know the obvious statement is that is just where the sword of Dios comes from ,but c'mon we did not see that hole in the series. So
WTF is that about?

When Ikuhara explained it in the commentary, I think he said something about it being more visually dramatic to show the shadow with the hole in its heart than just to show a scar on Anthy's chest. Take that as you will; it's a good reason stylistically but it has nothing to do with the story, and I'm sure we'd all like a story reason.

Also, expecting the series to carry over into the movie or vice versa isn't a great idea. I mean, Touga wasn't dead in the series, and Akio seemed to have had some sort of lobotomy for his sexiness in the movie...

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Much as I don't like movie Akio (wtf jumping off the balcony? Did they make him un-Akio on purpose?) I love the part where he slides over his car. It makes me laugh every time. ..but that frilly outfit doesn't really suit him.

'Ciao!'

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

Much as I don't like movie Akio (wtf jumping off the balcony? Did they make him un-Akio on purpose?) I love the part where he slides over his car. It makes me laugh every time.

I know what you mean.  It must be the sound effect, that tinkly chime as he flings himself over the hood.

i believe it was in a time long ago, on this very site, that i discovered that in one frame of the movie durring the battle between utena and juri, utena has no face...
i had to see if it was really like that too!
if you didnt know this..go look NOW!

BUT WAIT THERES MORE!

When akio walks over to the balcony on the
"scandalous video"
he kinda sounds like hes saying "heh..heh...i look good" which we know is WRONG!!

*if you have friends who have never seen utena before, please for the love of Dios, dont show them the movie first!
i have friends who saw the movie and said that it ruined it and they never wanted to see the series!



stupid friends if you ask me...

skewed_tartan wrote:

Are we talking about the movie? Because in the movie her motive is defined as forcing Juri to play Prince forever because Juri was in a way responsible for Touga's death, whom Shiori thought was her prince. Also in the movie Shirori acts as the catalyst for that world collapsing, she exposes the fact there is no prince, and in that effect that world cannot exist without a Prince. Touga says as much when he talks to Utena in the elevator. However she comes upon the tape, she knows what it means, and it may not entirely be cruelty that drives her to expose Anshi-its also her own need to escape from the past. So movie!Shirori does have her reasons for what she does, however she is indeed a much more selfish version of her series!self.

*Applauds* That was a wonderful analysis of Movie-Shiori's motives.